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robjames New user 26 Posts |
I can immediately name at least 20 full time close up magicians in the UK (and there are a lot more than that). Some do occasional cabaret but they are still primarily close uppers.
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Red Shadow Inner circle 1788 Posts |
I recognize your arguments. You want to say people like David Penn, he is full time close-up magician. But then he works overseas on cruise ships most of the time, on stage, so that neglects that argument.
Lets take someone else, Mark Leveridge. He supplements his living as a writer, magazine reporter, lecturer, dealer and yes, children's shows. Even if we remove the 'magician's lecturer' from the equation, I have yet to find anyone who supported themselves purely on close-up magic. I can open up the telephone book and look on corpoartemagicians.com and see a bunch of names. All of which are new to the business. If I look back at the yellow pages from several years ago, it is a completely different set of names, all of which have packed in the business for another job, because they could not find the work. (And before you mention it, you can have a free line entry in yellow pages, and there is no reason anybody would stop advertising when its free). Garrett Thomas - I've seen his DVDs. Oh wait, yes. He supplements his income with the production of DVDs!!! From Ring Thing to L&L to Jailhouse. It looks like even he could not support his income on close-up shows alone. Off course, this is an educational guess. If you willing to travel the entire country to get to a gig, and market yourself to such a wide area, then I guess it is possible. But when does the advertising and travel take its toll, and you decide I could be working a kids party within ten miles of my home for the same money! It gets worst when you start thinking, after petrol costs and other expenses from doing this show, I could have earned more working at McDonalds. I know that in the UK, London is a prominent area for close-up magicians. But then, I couldn't name any active ones. Most are street busking in the off times and have other earners during the week. Off the close-up magicians I have known, one supplements his living selling insurance, another runs a mobile bar, another teaches people how to play the stock market and two others are dealers and have released their own DVDs. The argument in my opinion is still sound, you cannot earn a living doing pure close-up magic. You have to expand your horizons and create a show suitable for other audiences. Steve |
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robjames New user 26 Posts |
Hi Steve, from your comments it's safe to say that you don't know the UK magic market very well. The fact that you think David Penn's primary work is on cruise ships (it isn't) and you can't name any active close up magicians in London (there are lots) kind of proves the point. I have earned my living 100% from close-up magic for 7 years. I have no other business interests (before you name The Session that usually barely breaks even or makes a loss) and have plenty of friends in the same position too. Hope that clarifies things.
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Red Shadow Inner circle 1788 Posts |
Not really. I'm a full time pro in the UK. So I know my market. I've done over 2000 kids shows, and about 150 close-up shows during my career. I guess the sheer volume of kids show work, compared tho the enquiries for close-up work has just made me think this is the case.
I understand that Manchester and London have very different clientele, and I do appreciate that with the amount of business going through London, it is easier to sustain a full time CU show. I know from my own experiences, and from the other members of the magic societies up here that London is a specialize case. All the trade shows are down south, and very little happens up here that requires the services of a magician. I also know that the few entertainers who have gone full time have had to travel the entire country to get to gigs, whether they be shop openings, trade shows or night club parties. Much of their time and costs is taken up with traveling. With kids shows, you pretty much stick within 20 miles of your home. David Penn works everywhere, is a multi-talented magician. But yes, I cannot name any active close-up magicians in London. That is the point!!! Maybe because their advertising and marketing plans are pathetic. I am a magician, and If I haven't heard of them, then they need to get there business plan sorted. I can name a dozen magicians who think there full-time, but they all supplements there income with other ventures due to necessity. 'One of very few full time close up magicians in the country.' - Not to mention Rob, you have this very quote on your first page of your website. Surely, that proves my point! I will say I admire your approach. You have a website (which is surprisingly rare), you enter competitions (which does gain reputable standards), and you post in here, which increases your online presence. You do list on your website that you perform in every town in the country, and the fact that you travel overseas to gigs a lot. I don;t know if the average CU Magician could do that, maybe that's the rule here, to survive in CU magic, you have to travel an awful lot. When you have family at home, and other jobs, then that is not an always an option. Steve P.S: the table on the first page of your website has not been central aligned. It is aligned to the left, while all the other pages are centred. Might want to fix that on your next update. |
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BrianMillerMagic Inner circle CT 2050 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-11-06 08:19, ku7uk3 wrote: Is your claim really that if someone supplements their income it means that they could not be making a living without the supplemental income? Garrett, and many others, release DVDs to contribute their original creations to the magic community. Trust me, he's making a living off of performing close-up magic. The supplemental income from the DVDs is a bonus. Garrett performs 20+ shows per month for almost exclusively seriously wealthy clients. Does he sell DVDs too? Sure, but it's irrelevant to whether or not he's making a living off of close-up magic. |
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Red Shadow Inner circle 1788 Posts |
Please read the entire paragraph.
'If you willing to travel the entire country to get to a gig, and market yourself to such a wide area, then I guess it is possible'. I don't know Garrets work schedule. I can only talk about the magicians I know in my own country, and even then, I think it would be bad taste to use names. I know first hand that there is little to zero money in the sale of magic DVD's. We do it to share out achievement with other magicians. |
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BrianMillerMagic Inner circle CT 2050 Posts |
If you'd rather not use names, then the answer to your question...
"So I cannot think of any full time professional close-up magicians. Is this the same for everybody?" ...is, "No. There are plenty of guys who are making a full time living from close-up magic, as you can clearly see cited multiple times in this thread." I know personally of a number of guys who do so, and one in particular who does so without ever going further than about an hour of his home. The fact that you don't personally know of any who are doing it doesn't mean that they don't exist. If you know the business and you're good at marketing, then it's just a matter of perseverance. And there are those who do it. |
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aussiemagic Special user 937 Posts |
If you market yourself as a kids performer, it is not surprising that you don't get many people asking you to do close up.
You said: "Maybe because their advertising and marketing plans are pathetic. I am a magician, and If I haven't heard of them, then they need to get there business plan sorted." This is just silly. They are not going to market to you now are they?
How to become a professional magician:
Click here |
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Magic Iain New user 32 Posts |
Stephen
By saying you don't know all the full time magicians and saying you've done 2000 kids shows I think it's fair to say - you haven't a clue. Could this be the reason you don't get many close up gigs? http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=uY0eZfB43D8 Maybe trying pulling more faces? |
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Red Shadow Inner circle 1788 Posts |
You obviously like looking at the website, so check out the page for close-up show. I've done over 150 close-up shows, won several awards, performed for numerous celebrities and released several DVDs (as evidenced through the video you kindly linked).
I think I'm qualified to make an opinion about the demand for work, and as a working professional, I tell you that I simply get far more calls for kids shows than close-up magic. You think I don't know how to market myself to the two different groups? I have two websites for the two sets of clients, and different business plans for each. I also never said that there weren't any, I said there were fewer. You all seem to think I said close-up magicians don't exist. Don't you people read the original post! I said there were less full time close-up magicians that kids. Just open up your local yellow pages for crying out loud, the evidence in right in front of you. You pick a couple of names in the entire world, who work an entire state and think, they are the proof the entire argument is wrong. Off course there are close-up magicians in this world. Were on a magic website dedicated to them! But there are still more FULL-TIME kids magicians to FULL-TIME close-up magicians. That was the original topic. But why am I wasting my time arguing. I made a post (not in this thread by-the way, it was moved from little darlings) and like all the other posts in this forum, its turned into a personal attack. I still stand by my first post. There are far fewer professional close-up magicians to pro kids entertainers. You can't argue that fact, so instead you argue with me. I don't have the time for it. I'm starting to realise why all the big names in magic have started to stay clear of this site. This is my last post on the topic, I have another gig to get to. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
I guess the question is why would you NOT be willing to travel the country to get the gigs?
In performance we follow the money. Heck most of the better paying gigs ARE NOT near where you live. You want to know if anyone makes big money and does not travel to do so doing close up? I can think of several magicians making pretty darn good money at close up and close up alone. I will say this though to sort of agree with you. FAR more people in magic in general, do not do it full time as their only source of income. Most and I mean well over 60% do other things to suppliment income. So that may or may not be a fair standard to apply.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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liampower Regular user 189 Posts |
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On 2008-11-09 15:21, ku7uk3 wrote: well not trying to pick a fight but you actually did say that in the original post "There are no full time close-up magicians." its on the 13th line but your right it is much harder making your living exclusively doing close up |
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Magic Iain New user 32 Posts |
You also said "
But when I look at close-up magicians, I cannot think of any full-time pro. There are hundreds of magicians out there, but all of them treat it as a part-time second job." Your posts are the reasons the big names don't come on here! People who know nothing yet have a lot to say. Anyway, enjoy the kids shows |
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tboehnlein Inner circle ohio 1787 Posts |
Iain your response is sophmoric at best, he asked a simple question based on his knowledge to state that he doesn't have a clue is ridiculous. Actually posts like yours are the reason so many stay away.
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
I find it interesting the speculation about why so many stay away.
How is anyone to know unless they are the individual who is doing the staying away in the first place?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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tboehnlein Inner circle ohio 1787 Posts |
Danny I visit other boards & read what those say that no longer come here.
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