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krowboom Loyal user Chicago area 233 Posts |
Are there methods other than the double undercut or pass to get a card placed in the middle of the deck to the top? I can't do the pass and I wonder if the double undercut is convincing enough. I hope what I'm asking isn't disclosure and if it is please answer via pm. Thanks.
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satoeri Regular user 134 Posts |
Hello Krowboom.
There are many methods for controlling a card to the top of a deck. The double undercut is a very good way for getting a card to the top of a deck. It is a necessary sleight for all beginning magicians to practice and master. A few tips of advice on the sleight however: 1- Keep your actions smooth and consistent in speed. When doing the double undercut, each packet should be cut to the top at the same speed, slowly, and smoothly. Don't rush it. 2- Try not to look too much at your own hands when doing the double undercut. Spectators tend to look where you are looking (this is a key principle for crowd control and missdirection). 3- Talk when you are doing the double undercut. Patter is your best misdirection. Lastly, in closing (about the double undercut). Anything can be "convincing enough" if the magician is up to the task to make it convincing. If you are looking for other methods for controls to the top, I wouldn't dismiss the pass just yet, as there are many types of passes. Keep practicing it when you can, just maybe not use it until you are ready and 100% confident in your skill (don't worry, this is a very difficult sleight to do well, and many magicians choose other controls). For other controls to the top, the double undercut is by far the easiest, but you can look into "the cherry control," the "cascade control," etc... both viewable/ downloadable at dan and dave's site. http://www.dananddave.com cheers and enjoy your practice =) |
The Burnaby Kid Inner circle St. John's, Canada 3158 Posts |
You need to figure out if you need a visible or invisible control. Neither one is necessarily better than the other, depending upon the effect in question.
You can frequently (but not always) substitute the double-undercut with a shuffle control, and a well-done shuffle control has the advantage of mirroring an action that a non-magician would make to randomize the cards. For these, the Royal Road to Card Magic is a good starting point. Start there. Worry about invisible controls later.
JACK, the Jolly Almanac of Card Knavery, a free card magic resource for beginners.
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Ben Train Inner circle Erdnase never had 4639 Posts |
Hello Krow,
It's sometimes difficult to distinguish over the internet between a snarky brushoff and a sincere answer, so let me state for the record- this is being written with the intent to help. Your question, plus the one you sent me in pm, plus others I'm sure you have, can be answered by reading some books. I would start with Card College, which might be the greatest intro course on card work ever written.* Don't make the mistake, as someone else I know did, by assuming you know enough to skip book one. Start there. I know full time pros and card guys who learnt a lot from reading it. Plus, there's some wicked stuff you would miss if you didn't! All the best, Ben *I don't need to get into the silly "read everything?" or "just opinion" arguments.
If you're reading this you're my favourite magician.
Check out www.TorontoMagicCompany.com for upcoming shows, and instagram.com/train.ben for god knows what! |
Jonathan Smith Regular user 125 Posts |
Learn a hindu shuffle control.
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MickeyPainless Inner circle California 6065 Posts |
Side steal maybe?
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Ben Train Inner circle Erdnase never had 4639 Posts |
Hey guys,
with all due respect listing moves might not be the best option here. The question shows the poster isn't familiar with card work- he asks if there is anything other then a double-undercut or pass, suggesting he is only familiar with those two. Krowboom, there are hundreds, if not thousands, of ways of controlling cards. Check out Card College and you'll get all that, plus more (tricks, moves, and advice on how to be a kick-butt magician). All the best, Ben
If you're reading this you're my favourite magician.
Check out www.TorontoMagicCompany.com for upcoming shows, and instagram.com/train.ben for god knows what! |
magicator Loyal user 201 Posts |
I would agree with Andrew Musgrave. The first question you need to address is whether or not you need an invisible control or not. This depends on the context of your effect. For instance, when you do Ambitious Card, you may prefer an invisible control rather than a shuffling one, since you want to sell the idea the card really is buried in the middle of the deck prior to magically bringing it to the top. If you would shuffle the cards before the effect, it is logically possible for the card to be on top now.
Finally, I do not think a double undercut is deceptive if done in its standard way right after the card is brought back into the deck. It looks a bit like a spectator's false cut. However, (if you do choose a visible control), my teacher showed me how a double undercut looks much better if it has a 3-beat. For instance, do a triple undercut instead. You will see how it now looks like a small shuffe. Card college teaches a double undercut using a table that has a 3-beat, by tabling the upper portion of the deck after the first undercut. Both those versions give a more deceptive look. The standard double undercut looks too much like a spectator's false cut. |
Harry Lorayne 1926 - 2023 New York City 8558 Posts |
Nobody really answered the basic question, not in my opinion. If, in fact, you care - I just about ALWAYS do the double undercut (which, in fact, is really a triple cut) but IMMEDIATELY followed by my Status Quo Shuffle, or a basic overhand jog shuffle. It's the overhand shuffle that locks in the fact(?) that the card is lost. (There's no way you'd want to use the double undercut during an ACR.) HL.
[email]harrylorayne@earthlink.net[/email]
http://www.harrylorayne.com http://www.harryloraynemagic.com |
Picard Elite user 411 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-02-21 10:19, Harry Lorayne wrote: Agreed! I don't even know pass (or some other complicated techniques), I just don't need it at all to amaze and entertain people! Btw, Harry I am always impressed by the speed of your overhand jog shuffle, even when you're retaining a larger top stock it looks 100% like an ordinary shuffle (even to me who knows what to look for). |
walid ahumada Special user sinaloa, mexico 892 Posts |
Since you are already familiar with the double under cut, something easy to do is to add-mix the double under cut with the cut to the table, it will take you just minutes to get and in my opinion it is more deceptive.
“Magic becomes art when it has nothing to hide.” BEN OKRI quote
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wsduncan Inner circle Seattle, WA 3619 Posts |
Ben's right. If you want to be good, read Card College.
You won't learn to be good from online message boards. |
dyrwolf New user The timbers of Fennario 94 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-02-21 05:12, magicator wrote: I have always thought the double undercut is a weak move. I cringe when I see it.
So now, less than five years later, you can go up on a steep hill in Las Vegas and look West, and with the right kind of eyes you can almost see the high-water mark — that place where the wave finally broke and rolled back.
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