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randyburtis Inner circle 1256 Posts |
AS the title states...do you do any of your gospel routines in your secular show, if so what ones and with what focus of message. Obviously I would think, you wouldn't do salvation type effects(but maybe I am wrong) but I am more referring to effects that have as themes, love, forgiveness, moral stories etc...
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MagicBus Inner circle Kalamazoo, Michigan 2869 Posts |
A very good routine that is what I'd call "quasi Gospel" is the "Blessing of Love" CD available from Arthur Stead and Duane Laflin. We filmed it for Now That's Magic! many months ago, hopefully we can post it soon. But it has as its basic premise is that you cannot ever give too much. Comes with no props, but with nice royalty free music with the message tract on it and just the music tract alone if you want to do the words yourself. But no strict reference to a Bible passage that I can recall, very nicely done. I filmed it using silks and a change bag and the message tract. I should have added a silk fountain at the end which Laflin/Locke now sell for $99 (get the silk fountain DVD too if you buy the fountain only, otherwise you won't know how to fold it). If I do it again, I will use my Abbott's Florabella which I picked up used at an estate sale (the new cost now is $2,500- yikes!- would have been way out of the ballpark for me otherwise). So that effect comes immediately to mind for a nice love/giving type message.
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revmike Special user Annville, PA 646 Posts |
On quite a few of my routines I would say 95-98% might be identical. I merely replace scriptural references or direct Christian language to a more moral type of Christian language.
For instance I use Barry Mitchell's Treasure Chest many times as a closer in Church Shows with the references to St. Paul and gifts, talents, etc. The way I do the effect it is about 7 and a half minutes long. However I can do the effect with some very minor change for any secular show and not offend anybody of another faith tradition or even those atheists in the audience.
The magic is not in our sleights and illusions, but instead in our ability to bring love and joy.
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Terry Owens Inner circle Ft. Wayne, Indiana 1707 Posts |
I keep my secular and Gospel apart...people who are paying me to be entertained want just that...entertainment.
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The Great Danton Elite user Westfield, North Carolina, USA 449 Posts |
I am the same as Terry, I do lots of secular shows, that are just entertainment. My Church shows use some of my "entertainment" routines, but are mostly about the message.
One of the things you want to stay away from is "sneaking in" gospel routines. If the people are coming for magic and entertainment, and you give them gospel messages, they will likely feel suckered. If the show has been advertised as a Gospel magic show, the people coming are already aware that there will be a gospel aspect to it.
"You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden; nor does anyone light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on the lampstand, and it gives light to all who are in the house."
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randyburtis Inner circle 1256 Posts |
Danton, I agree, but depending on the trick and your performing personality, sometimes presenting a good moral story/effect fits, and I was curious if others did that. I tend to have one effect in a nonchurch show that has a moral story, or accents a theme of love, friendship, forgiveness, integrity etc...
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MagicBus Inner circle Kalamazoo, Michigan 2869 Posts |
I did an outdoor magic show several years ago (in a large barn type theatre with lights, sound, etc.) for a City "parks" department "family festival", sponsored and paid for by the City. It involved 5 magicians (all invited by me) to do magic on this public stage for 4 hours straight. One well meaning magician, out of the blue, did a full blown Gospel routine and started it out by saying "I shouldn't be doing this, but I feel compelled to do this anyway." Yikes! Needless to say, I was not to happy, it was cringe city. It never got back to the City, and we got invited back to perform the following year. That next year, I "forgot" to ask that fellow back again to join us. Zeal is great, and zeal has gotten me in trouble before, but you cannot ever flaunt the wishes of the people footing the bill.
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brainbolt66 New user 15 Posts |
MagicBus with all do respect, If that magician felt compelled by God to do a Gospel show, then that is what he should have done. There could have been someone there that needed just that. If God tells me to do something, then that is what I am going to try and do.
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MagicBus Inner circle Kalamazoo, Michigan 2869 Posts |
Except, not in this case. This particular program was paid for, sponsored by, promoted by, the taxpayers of that City. It was part on their public park property, on their stage at their event, not in a church. We were hired to do a "family friendly" program, they also had carnival type rides, music, food booths, fire trucks and police displays, etc. I knew the lady in charge of the entertainment, I assured her we'd do a "secular" and very clean program, and very family friendly. I even told all the performers when I arranged for them to be there that even though we were all Christians, this was not a Christian program, but sponsored by the taxpayers.
So not only could I have been in big trouble with the City for breaking my word, the City itself could have been in hot water for helping to actually pay for a "Christian" program. So that is the specific background there, this is not a freedom of speech issue, but a clear case where the "State" cannot monitarily sponsor a "Gospel" promotion. What that magician (and a real good guy too) friend of mine did was almost kwowingly ("I might get in trouble for this") jeopardize me for sure, and maybe other City officials as well if they had ending having to apologize for us. I know I would be upset if I went to a taxpayer sponsored children's program and the speaker began to "share" the news how vodoo or Satanism or being a member of the House of David changed his life, for example, no matter how sincere he might have been. As an attorney, the City was fortunate that no one in that very mixed audience was offended, they could have lost a lawsuit (although I have no idea what the "damages" would be). The City even had a ticket entrance fee to the event. Anyway, when my sincere friend started the routine out the way he did, he should have known what he was doing could have gotten me and our City sponsor in trouble. So I respectfully disagree, alarm bells should go off if ever "felt lead" to do something contractually incorrect at worst and/or questionable at best. Fortunately, that is rarely a problem for me, as the few programs I actually do are usually in Sunday School settings that I really enjoy and totally feel free to share whatever I'd like from missions to the importance of reading the Bible. That is always a wonderful thing for sure! Have a great day all, I appreciate the forum. I spend as much as 6 or more hours a day typing on my computer as part of my employment, and The Magic Café is a welcome addiction for me to put in my two cents on stuff whether I know anything about it or not. A pleasure to chat with you all, keep it up, I enjoy reading your postings on whatever the topic. This internet thing might amount to something someday. |
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stempleton Inner circle 1443 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-05-07 13:34, The Great Danton wrote: There have been numerous examples of this kind of backlash, but I follow the "as you go" direction of Christ. I agree with another's comment about putting in a moral or "Christian value" message, much like Terry Evanswood does in his MAGIC BEYOND BELIEF program. People know what they're getting when the contact me, even for private functions. Lose a show next time? Oh, well. I can answer to the One from whom I seek approval just fine. |
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The Great Danton Elite user Westfield, North Carolina, USA 449 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-05-07 14:24, randyburtis wrote: I agree on this point, I was referring to "full blown" Gospel routines, an extreme example would be Duane Laflin's "Perfect or else" head chopper routine. As for the themes you are mentioning, I could see doing one/any/all of them in a otherwise secular show. For example, Barry Mitchell's "mother of all diamonds" is something I could see (myself) doing at a children's or family event. I'm not afraid to let people know I'm a Christian, and if/when I have a show like Terry Evanswood, I will do something very similar to what he does with his testimony.
"You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden; nor does anyone light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on the lampstand, and it gives light to all who are in the house."
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stempleton Inner circle 1443 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-05-07 19:54, The Great Danton wrote: I think you would be great at telling a story, a story, a story... Magibus, you have valid points. I would like to say I avoid the word "secular" almost as much as the word "magic." I prefer "traditional." Secular sounds so... well, secular. |
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randyburtis Inner circle 1256 Posts |
Heh yeah and really is anything REALLY secular...
I find I can do quite a few effects similar, but without the strong message for example, I do a mind reading experiment with mental epic, and leave with the question, real or something else...with gospel shows I go on to explain about truth and deception. other shows, I leave that out. |
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The Great Danton Elite user Westfield, North Carolina, USA 449 Posts |
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Magibus, you have valid points. I would like to say I avoid the word "secular" almost as much as the word "magic." I prefer "traditional." Secular sounds so... well, secular. Traditional is a good word. As Randy said, I think a lot of us use the same effects, but change it some, or leave part out for the "traditional" shows. Yes?
"You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden; nor does anyone light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on the lampstand, and it gives light to all who are in the house."
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puppeterry Regular user Sanger, CA 114 Posts |
For church shows, I'll use the Leaping Arrows (Crazy Compass) to show that God's Way is never-changing, while Man's Way goes to the side and opposite ways until he repents and returns to God's Way. For secular audiences, the same trick becomes a tale of two children, one who pays attention and one who doesn't follow directions.
TV Mc Arthur
The Librician Fresno (CA) County Public Library "They don't get better.....just faster." |
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themagiciansapprentice Inner circle Essex, UK 1381 Posts |
Making changes -
auto-colour changing silks = quick fixes that soon turn back silks => blendo permanent changes Works well for spiritual and changed in behaviour / attitude
Have wand will travel! Performing children's magic in the UK for Winter 2014 and Spring 2015.
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Bendy Special user Columbus, Ohio 518 Posts |
I do not hide my faith; but if it's a paying gig and they are not paying to hear any Biblical messages, then they don't get any Biblical messages. They're the client - they get what they pay for and they don't get blindsided by the insertion of a message. I have business cards that are BLATANTLY Christian. No mistaking it. However, I still get secular gigs. In fact, this past Hanukkah, I was invited to perform walk-around magic for a dinner/event at a local Jewish temple. The two gentlemen who invited me know me well and know that I am not just a Christian; but also a Gospel magician. They also know that I can be trusted to do the job I was hired to do and be absolutely respectful and professional. That was actually a VERY fun gig and I'll be back this year.
When performing for friends, co-workers or when doing anything magical strictly for me and not for pay, then the Gospel is definitely tied into it. It isn't every trick necessarily; but if it's up to me and/or all for me, it's in there. But I don't believe one should "sneak in" a Gospel/Biblical message at a paying gig if you are not specifically hired or asked to do so. |
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Bob Sanders Grammar Supervisor Magic Valley Ranch, Clanton, Alabama 20504 Posts |
You bet!
Bob Sanders Magic By Sander |
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themagiciansapprentice Inner circle Essex, UK 1381 Posts |
I've been booked for a birthday party at a fast food restaurant in Salmiya. They looked at my website and decided they wanted some gospel magic as well! Going to be intriguing how I do this in a moslem country.
Have wand will travel! Performing children's magic in the UK for Winter 2014 and Spring 2015.
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randyburtis Inner circle 1256 Posts |
Wow, that is cool and kinda intimidating, but what a wonderful opportunity!
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