Hi Guys

Need your advise here. I recently start to use the Hughes Dove Pyramid to Botania again after I bought 7 years ago.

http://www.hughesmagic.com/catalog/misc/doveeffects.html

6 years back, I uses doves to transform to Botania. But Jeff McBride review plus other laymen & magicians about this was, I am cruel to put doves into hollow confined space, so I put it aside then...

Recently I start using again 2 weeks ago. This time with great success using Fanstasio candle to 4 bloom Marshall yellow/red centre flower & transform to Hughes Dove Pyramid Botania.

http://www.hmcmagic.com/hmctricks/fancandle.htm

However, at the same time, Dave Womach release the invisible harness for parakeet....guess parakeets are way smaller than doves & guess is ok to place it into the pyramid with no negative review on cruel treatment of animals.

Hence, I am seeking your help on whether which is a better impact for

A)LAYMAN as well for B) MAGICIAN

1) Produce 1-2 yellow parakeet(aka invisible) & drop into Hughes Pyramid to Botania

OR

2) Produce 4 blooms of yellow flower from white Fantasio candle & drop into Hughes Pyramid to Botania

Hope someone can advise me which is a greater impact if the audience are all layman & another audience with all magicians.

Thanks
dove-boy

Joe,
My thoughts are that the same guys that thought you were hurting the doves in the pyramid will think the same with the parakeet. That is a shame because it is not true in either case.

Richard

Hi Richard

I agree with you the doves are safe in the pyramid, but somehow reviews came & mostly feel the same way. I have no choice but to listen to the majority people of magician & layman...

I remember McBride on the phone ask me to remove the botania completely 'cause is hurting the act, as he mention the audience groan when I place the doves in it... I personally disagree; hence, to pay safe, I uses candle to flower.

Now just happen to think yellow parakeet is smaller, though should be great to use...oh yes, forget this people might still think I am hurting the parakeet the same way.

Guess, I will stick to candle to flower...thanks, Richard.

Joe, using that theory, I wouldn't presume to know more than someone like Jeff McBride, but using that philosophy, you shouldn't use a dove pan, mirror box, or balloon to dove, or any piece of apparatus as the space for the dove is small and confining. Heck, with that in mind, we shouldn't be using holder and such for body loads either as the dove is cramped and confined.

I'm not familiar with the pyramid, but I can't imagine that the load space is any smaller than any other prop we use.

Actually, in my view, I understand why the majority feels the same way 'cause the doves actually went vertical down into the the standard hole of the botania.

Just imagine a botania with the hole, shown to the audience...this is where the doves goes in...dove head up or down, still vertical down, hence this might seem cruel in their view. If is horizontal, there is no problem.

Anyway, to avoid drifting away from the topic, I really hope someone can advise me which is nicer when using the pyramid as seen in the picture...it is parakeets or flowers...the cruel remark is old topic now.

Thanks
doveboy

Sorry, Joe, I would not vote for either. Perhaps the sequence of both effects (parakeets or flowers to botania) did not bring out the effect or magic the audience wants or expects to see. The audience don't see a logical meaning to them.

Example ... performing a sequence of effects with a flower stem - like taking off the flower and vanish it and it reappear on the stem. Remove the flower again and do a continuous production of flowers (each one being thrown into the pyramid) and the last item thrown in is the stem. Then, the pyramid explodes into a colorful botania makes more sense.

This is just my opinion. Hope this idea can bring out food for thought.

I agree with James Tong, birds to flowers is not very logical.

Birds from flowers is okay, as in Abbott's Flash Tub of Flowers and Doves.

http://www.magicgettogether.com/mm5/merc......Code=LM2

I am going in the same line of thought as James. You need a variety of productions that, added together, represent the finished botania. I hate to use this reference, but think of the botania as a dump box for things you produce, and then it changes into this beautiful bush.

Maybe it's flowers from fingertips. It could be red sponge balls and yellow silks.

My original concept of the Dove Pyramid was to give an alternative ending to a dove vanish after a series of productions. It was not meant to be a trick unto itself, but a punctuation mark at the end of a routine.
I hope that helps give you some direction.

And for the record, I still say these guys are nuts that say it hurts the bird. He is safer in the pyramid that most of the invisible harnesses and a lot of the other props used out there.

Richard

Hi Richard, do you have a video of the dove pyramid in action?

I do not but there Dove boy might have something. I will look and see what I can find on youtube.

Yup, I can send you the video clips on from my facebook, my user name is JOE YU, you can message me from there.

this are clips from the 2003 Asian Pro Challenge at IF MAGIC , where I placed 2 yellow/red doves into the pyramid & explode into 25 blooms of yellow/red Hughes flowers

I don't do Facebook but I will see if my wife can get it for me.

Joe,
Could you dropbox them to me?
Richard

There seems to be over 80 Joe Yu on Facebook, which one are you?