|
|
Go to page [Previous] 1~2 | ||||||||||
Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24314 Posts |
It really doesn't matter. If she was working as a mind reader, she was working as the same thing that Hanussen worked as and that Washington Irving Bishop worked as.
And Stuart Cumberland, and a host of other mindreading charlatans. The term "psychic" was not in general use as a noun describing a kind of entertainer until after 1900 or so, probably closer to 1920. There were many female performers who did question answering acts, most of whom avoided the Spiritualist Church. None of them would have appreciated being called a "magician," any more than a gambler would. You have to remember that there was a time in which mind reading frauds masquerading as genuine clairvoyants were plentiful. They cropped up after the first world war, the second world war and after most big disasters. In many of these acts, the person doing the "reading" was female, and she had a male partner who basically collected the money and made sure that the "clairvoyant" got home with all the money. They did not need the Spiritualist Church to give some kind of imprimatur to their activities. This still goes on. If you don't believe me, go to Reno in a couple of months when Sylvia Brown is appearing onstage. She won't be vanishing silks in a thumbtip or pulling doves out of handkerchiefs. She will be posing as a mindreader. And she will be using the techniques of a magician. Go up to her and ask her how it feels to be one of the few female magicians who is making six to eight figures. See how she reacts to that. These people have always been considered the lowest of the low by performing magicians. However, a person such as Adelaide Herrmann was performing as a magician. She didn't claim to be a psychic or any of that other nonsense.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
|||||||||
JamesTong Eternal Order Malaysia 11213 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-11-14 02:35, Bill Palmer wrote: WoW! Six to eight figures is a lot of money for a mindreading act. |
|||||||||
MagiClyde Special user Columbus, Ohio 871 Posts |
Quote:
This still goes on. If you don't believe me, go to Reno in a couple of months when Sylvia Brown is appearing onstage. She won't be vanishing silks in a thumbtip or pulling doves out of handkerchiefs. She will be posing as a mindreader. And she will be using the techniques of a magician. Go up to her and ask her how it feels to be one of the few female magicians who is making six to eight figures. See how she reacts to that. Quote:
They did not need the Spiritualist Church to give some kind of imprimatur to their activities. Sadly, Sylvia Browne believes her own press and is actually trying to start a church with herself as the leader. What's worse is the sheer number of people who believe in her. You would think that after so many wrong predictions that people would have wised up to her by now. Here is the link to an anti-Sylvia Browne website.
Magic! The quicker picker-upper!
|
|||||||||
julieannjohnson Veteran user 305 Posts |
The heat and anger directed against mind reader acts of the 19th century seems unnecessary.
Obviously, in today's terms, Millie La Mar, the Blind Albino Seeress, was a mentalist and a psychic entertainer. She worked in a sideshow as an attraction and she also performed a theatrical act. To attack her as a "fraud" and a "charlatan" and "the lowest of the low" more than 100 years after her death aeems recklessly aggressive, and more than a little obsessive. To claim that "none of [the women who performed mind reading acts during the 19th century] would have appreciated being called a 'magician,' any more than a gambler would" is unsupportable and unverifiable opnion ... unless, of course, you are a spirit medium, in which case it is, no doubt, verifiable truth. In a multi-faceted forum such as this, where there are well-populated sub-sections devoted to posts about sideshow freaks of the present and past and to psychic entertainers, readers, and mentalists of the present and past, I suggest that patient collegial tolerance is preferable to juvenile sneering and bullying by proxy. |
|||||||||
Moxahalla Special user Los Angeles 751 Posts |
Mary, some would say.
|
|||||||||
Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24314 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-11-16 19:44, julieannjohnson wrote: I believe that calling them magicians is also unnecessary. BTW, I'm not angry at any of these people, as you have inferred. If there is any of these frauds, and I use that word without fear of being contradicted, who really did severe damage to a large group of people, it was Herman Chaim Steinschneider, AKA Erik Jan Hanussen. I have direct knowledge of Hanussen, his methods and the results of his work. I know that Hanussen never intended to harm any large group of people with the things he wrote in his newspaper or the counsel he gave to various people in Berlin, but a very strong argument could be made that, ironically, without his aid Adolf Hitler would not have come to power. The most convenient reference for this in English is Mel Gordon's book Hanussen -- Hitler's Jewish Clairvoyant. Another one that is equally good, perhaps even better, is Wilfried Kugel's book Hanussen, which is available only in German. Hanussen always performed as a genuine psychic. He was possibly the best muscle reader in the business. He lived the part, setting up his "Palace of the Occult" in Berlin. He predicted the Reichstag fire, which gave Hitler the excuse he needed to complete his take over of the German government and begin what later became World War II and the Holocaust. One other note of irony. Hanussen may have been one of the first, if not THE first victims of the Holocaust. Shortly after Hitler took over the government completely, he had Hanussen seized and thrown in jail. Later, he was taken out to the woods outside of Berlin and shot. Hitler feared that Hanussen knew too much about the workings of the SS, because he had been a "psychic consultant" for several of the SS officers. He also had loaned several of them money. By the way, it's not difficult to learn what people thought about any performer of any type during the 19th century. There is an abundance of newspaper articles, as well as psychological journals, etc. that address this subject from various viewpoints. Clyde: I'm surprised Sylvia hasn't already done that. It's easy to do in the US. With her immense following it would make a lot of sense to do it, especially considering the tax implications. Quote:
On 2009-10-16 20:42, Spellbinder wrote: When did the Magic Circle do this? What year? Here are three candidates: 1) Emma Reno 2) Mlle. LeRoux (French magic dealer and performer)\ 3) Talma. known as the queen of coins.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
|||||||||
Stellan Special user Sweden 580 Posts |
Thanks for all input. We are not being absolutely clear on this subject. Doing some research I have found another candidate.
A certain Mrs Brenon is supposed to have performed in the United States somewhere between 1787 and 1800. She was the wife of a conjurer and slack-wire performer. The source is: "The Magician on the American Stage: 1752-1874" by Charles Joseph Pecor I have not read the book myself as I have only a reference to it. It is edited by University of Georgia 1976 Ph.D. diss. It would be fantastic if somebody could dig up more information about her.
"There is no reality, only perception."
|
|||||||||
Phil Pearce Loyal user Dallas, GA 260 Posts |
Yes, Stellan, the book to which you refer, "The Magician on the American Stage: 1752-1874", by Charles Pecor, does in fact refer to Mrs. Brenon as performing sleigh-of-hand in New York, and provides as reference: "Annals of the New York Stage", by George C. D. Odell, 15 vols., Vol. 1, pg. 262. Published by Columbia University Press, 1927-1949.
Pecor's book is a treasure chest of information covering early individual stage magicians, their places of performing, advertising, and what Mr. Pecor refers to as Magic-Plus. Magic-Plus are those theatrical arts particularly embraced by magicians of the era to increase their draw, and included ventriloquism, fire-eating, slack rope walking, etc. I'm fortunate to have a First Edition signed Copy #4 of this landmark work, although I'm thinking of putting it up for sale. |
|||||||||
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Magicians of old » » First known female magician? (0 Likes) | ||||||||||
Go to page [Previous] 1~2 |
[ Top of Page ] |
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2024 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved. This page was created in 0.05 seconds requiring 5 database queries. |
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic. > Privacy Statement < |