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stoneunhinged Inner circle 3067 Posts 
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It's a YouTube phenomenon. Heck, the kids these days tie and untie their shoes and upload videos about it.
Doesn't bother me. Let the kids play with themselves. |
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Mr. Mystoffelees Inner circle I haven't changed anyone's opinion in 3623 Posts
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On 2010-01-20 17:11, QwertyHero wrote: And, not all magic is a rush for money. Any good library will have enough magic for free to hold someone for a good while. At least, at the library, you have to DO something. Further, not all YouTube is intentional or inadvertent exposure. I have seen some very good magic (presentations without exposure) by performers who have worked on their chops before they produced a video. Lastly, I fully support those creators who are offering their ideas for sale- we need them and they deserve to be compensated. No one forces me to buy- I choose whether or not to buy... Jim
Also known, when doing rope magic, as "Cordini"
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QwertyHero New user 27 Posts
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On 2010-01-20 18:45, mandarin wrote: I wouldn't be able to fly a plane for free in the same way I wouldn't be able to perform a trick that requires an expensive gimmick for free but I could learn the basics of flying for free very easily and no one would be upset and if I met a pilot I doubt he'd charge me if I said I was interested and would he be so kind to answer a few questions I had. I can't think of another pastime that is only allowed to be discussed once wallets are opened. Saying all that, I'm not overly thrilled by exposure on Youtube but it doesn't greatly upset me. They're not giving the secrets out to the general public, they're giving them to people who are seeking them out by searching for them, like a library. It's not like you log onto Youtube and are instantly presented with the method for Dr Daley's last trick, you'd have to know that trick's name and search. Laymen aren't going to do that are they? To me there's no difference between a Youtube or a Jay Sankey video apart from one wants your money. Now the Masked Magician, I can see the why that isn't good. It's thrust out into the public without anyone even asking for it simply for them to make money. Completely different. |
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Bill Thompson Elite user Mississippi 422 Posts
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"To let understanding stop at what cannot be understood is a high attainment.
Those who cannot do it will be destroyed on the lathe of heaven." - Chuang Tse |
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stoneunhinged Inner circle 3067 Posts
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Cry? I watched the whole video with a smile on my face. That kid was wonderful!
How old do you think he is? Six? Seven? And twisting the aces? Well done! |
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Mr. Mystoffelees Inner circle I haven't changed anyone's opinion in 3623 Posts
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I tried, Mr. Bill. I just... I just... I just couldn't do it...
Also known, when doing rope magic, as "Cordini"
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Bill Thompson Elite user Mississippi 422 Posts
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On 2010-01-21 01:10, stoneunhinged wrote: He would be cute if he were performing for a bunch of magicians... however, he is just a beginner, a learner, a student, but now he thinks he has mastered magic to the point he can /teach/ it! Furthermore, he is offering a subscription service so you can learn more magic from him. And you think this is /cute/?
"To let understanding stop at what cannot be understood is a high attainment.
Those who cannot do it will be destroyed on the lathe of heaven." - Chuang Tse |
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stoneunhinged Inner circle 3067 Posts
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Yes, I think it's cute.
He doesn't "think he has mastered magic to the point he can teach it". He's too young to think such things. He's so young that he doesn't remember when YouTube was invented. He's just performing in the medium he knows. It's no different to him than doing something cute in front of his parents. Look: I don't like exposure, and I positively HATE the idea that anyone can teach anything. But this kid is too young to know any of this argument. He's way below the "exposure radar". He's a new phenomenon. We can complain, or we can deal with it. |
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Mr. Mystoffelees Inner circle I haven't changed anyone's opinion in 3623 Posts
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How would you suggest we "deal with it"?
Also known, when doing rope magic, as "Cordini"
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stoneunhinged Inner circle 3067 Posts
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I would suggest that we simply accept the phenomenon exists. The cat is out of the bag. Pandora's box has been opened. The ketchup is out of the bottle. The toothpaste is out of the tube.
There is a generation growing up who has known YouTube as something everyday as television, and "tutorials" as everyday as school book reports. Whether this particular form of exposure will have a serious effect on the craft no one can say. But whining about it is like whining about rain: it will not go away, no matter what we do, no matter how many threads or posts in no matter how many Internet forums, no matter what the IBM or the CDU or the IRA or anyone anywhere does about it. So by "deal with it", I mean something like, "accept the fact that it is here, and we are powerless to stop it." If you are really interested, you could do an advanced search of all my posts in this forum and you'd find out that I, too, am mystified by the Internet. I think my first post in this forum was about downloading magic books. Since the phenomenon interests me, I have kept tabs on its progress. Presently you could download a file with over 1,000 magic books. The Internet has changed everything anyone ever thought of regarding the secrecy of information. It's not just about magic anymore. Have you put any serious thought about how to keep your children safe from pornography? I have. It's not possible. I sat down with my son (he's 10 1/2) and told him what's out there and to be careful and such. But it is not possible to prevent him from seeing porn if he wants. If he won't do it on my computer while I'm supervising, he'll do it on a friend's computer, or at school (do you really think those filters work), or wherever. He's still too young to be interested, but the only thing I can do is warn him and encourage him to do the right thing and make wise choices. I am powerless--and I mean completely and totally powerless--to keep him away from pornography if he so chooses. Likewise, Internet exposure of magic is here, period, and we are totally and completely powerless to prevent it. All we can do is encourage the young to do the right thing and make wise choices. Now, Mandarin, go back and look at your post above with the list you wrote above, and ask yourself, "how do I deal with it?" Take your point on grammar for example. Lead by example. Use good grammar. Encourage the young to write and communicate properly. When they write U R Wikd!, correct them. Don't cry over that video. Encourage the kid to grow up and become a REAL magician. Write a comment. Try to contact him. Cringing over the video changes nothing. It's like cringing over the weather. But by "deal with it" I certainly don't mean, "Let's try to stop it somehow!" That is simply not possible. Period. |
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stoneunhinged Inner circle 3067 Posts
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Just for everyone's information, here is my first post ever in the Right or Wrong forum:
http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/searc......=5005668 For the record: I *do* believe exposure is wrong, and I am also interested in what motivates people to do wrong things. But the kid in the video I'm referring to is so young that we are obviously dealing with something that has become habituated: there is no "motivation" as such involved. They just do it. That's what one does. The subject of the thread isn't how to stop it. But since I think it's now unstoppable, I chimed in with my glass-is-half-empty opinion. Saying that the kid is cute was not meant to imply that I think the kid is some kind of role model for moral values. Next up: exposure of magic videos made by...puppies! And off topic: re-reading that post of mine made me cringe. A lot of money on card books? Since then I have easily popped out over 1,000 dollars on everything from Tarbell to bizarre magic to cups and balls videos (and all behind my wife's back). What we REALLY should be talking about in this forum is the ethics of being addicted to purchasing magic books and equipment. I bet most of us are...uh...slightly out of control. 
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Mr. Mystoffelees Inner circle I haven't changed anyone's opinion in 3623 Posts
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"I bet most of us are...uh...slightly out of control."
... while those like me are different- we are totally out of control! Thanks, Jeff, for a great response. I don't agree with some of your thoughts, but I certainly respect your opinions. For one, I feel there is a difference between how I FEEL about something, and what I believe is my duty to DO about that same something. Yes, I feel exposure has turned a corner and will likely become more rampant as time goes on. However, I also feel it is wrong for me so say "Oh, well, nothing I can do about it, may as well save myself the effort". That is just not my way of "dealing" with it. I know it will likely do no good, but I will continue to rail. History has shown that to accept what is given to us is not always the best course of action. Does it eat my liver? Not at all. For two, yes that is a young child. Yes, I believe he is old enough to be taught right from wrong. Yes, he is cute. He would be just as cute, however, with the presentation and not the exposure. Where the hell are his parents? Watching TV and saying they are dealing with it? Sorry, to me this is sad- an opportunity to teach the teachable gone to waste... Always good to hear your thoughts, Jeff. Regards, Jim
Also known, when doing rope magic, as "Cordini"
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stoneunhinged Inner circle 3067 Posts
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Actually Jim, our disagreement is very small. I also believe that if something could be done, something should be done.
In this case you're right that his parents are failing him. But for the larger question regarding the relationship of YouTube and exposure, I am simply at a loss. I truly wish we could put a lid on it, but I just don't think we can. A year or two ago I also wrote about how upsetting it is to me that this kids think they are "teachers". "Teaching" seems to mean nothing more than giving a book report. This deeply insults those who have the calling to teach, and especially insults those with the gift of teaching, and most insults those who see teaching as a craft and have worked on it for decades. These days, some kid learns how to tie his shoes, then posts a video on YouTube to "teach" others how to do it. It's definitely something to ponder, and you have my utmost respect for not giving up the fight. I guess you're a glass-is-half-full kind of guy. Jeff |
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Mr. Mystoffelees Inner circle I haven't changed anyone's opinion in 3623 Posts
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"I guess you're a glass-is-half-full kind of guy. "
Well, Jeff, with your permission I would like to show that to a bunch of people- mostly friends and relatives! I could steal their wallets while they are doubled up with laughter... As one who has devoted about 40 years of life to teaching, I am so in agreement with your comments on that topic. I have always figured that teaching is one of those skills that just looks so easy in the hands of a pro that folks think anyone can do it. I don't mind that- every time I go to Holiday On Ice, about half way through I am hoping they call me out on the ice, because I am convinced I can DO that. Don't know the answer either, my friend. On the bright side, I have been frying specs with OLD stuff! Maybe there is just too much magic around for anyone to expose it all! On that note, last year I went to a Copperfield show, and was very impressed with one of his effects. A few weeks later, I was reading one of my old, old magic books, and there it was! Changed, for sure, but the same effect! Now that was a lesson for me. I still plan to rail... Regards, Jim
Also known, when doing rope magic, as "Cordini"
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| The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Right or Wrong? » » Why do people expose on YouTube, Etc.? (0 Likes) | ||||||||||
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Posted: Jan 20, 2010 10:24 pm 
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