I use "Notebook" and "Thought Transmitter," and am satisfied with both. But for stage, I'm wondering about using something bigger to be seen from a distance. Any thoughts on the clipboards out there? There are several to choose from, with many dealer descriptions saying that this or that is the best.

Hi Dave,

I'm not 100% sure I understand what you're asking for. Clipboards, the Notebook and Thought Transmitter are all, essentially 'invisible', meaning they are not meant to be props in and of themselves and therefore, not 'visible'. So, if you're looking for something bigger to be seen from stage, this is exactly not what you're looking for. I'm sure the question just isn't coming through the way you want it to.

Are you looking for mentalism that is big and plays visually from the stage? Could that be it? Try it again and we'll take it from there.

Mark

Mark,

My original point is that I'm looking for an impression device more suitable for stage rather than close up. By stage, I don't mean 600 people (for which a clipboard may also be small). My "stage" shows tend to be small audiences of 50-100 people. Something written on an 8 1/2 by 11 page can be seen in such a situation (i.e., especially if you instruct the spectator to write large enough for everyone to see later). Something written in a 2-3 inch area won't be visible to that crowd.

While the clipboard, Notebook, and Thought Transmitter are "invisible" to the routine, the paper they write on is not! That's what must be seen.

The bottom line: please recommend a good clipboard, or even one(s) to steer away from.

I've used a clear plexiglass full size clipboard with several layers of car polish with modest success, but don't like the reset (which takes several minutes), and the smell is not so pleasant.

Thanks,
Dave

Wouldn't an impression device be more suitable for pre-show work?

During the show itself, you could have the volunteer come up on stage and re-draw the picture (now in a larger format) and use some Kentonisms to lead the audience to believe that this is the first time the volunteer has drawn this image.

You would then have an apparent miracle on your hands...

Dave,

It is still not clear to me whether you want the spec to draw -- or what not -- on stage, or whether you could do it preshow.

It also matters whether you want to do a design duplication or get a word. On stage large design dup is probably best done with one of the "Clone" pads of Lee Earle -- although he no longer makes them.
In anycase, it is not much good for written material. I understand the Buma Board -- is that what it is called -- is similar, but I have no experience with it.

For pre-show, you can do one of at least two things. You can, as Philemon suggests, double talk during the presentation to obscure the fact that the person has written or drawn something before. Then have them draw or write it big for the audience. In which case any way of getting the information is ok.

Or you can be up front about the fact that you had them go off by themselves and draw or write something large ahead of time and bring it with them to the show. I saw Geller on TV several months ago, and this is what he did. Geller made part of his reputation doing this.

On a trip to Hollwood several years ago, I picked up an old metal movie film can for them to put the picture in, seal with tape, and bring to the performance. I think Geller also did this sort of thing. Anything like this would work. Make a virtue out of necessity.

Hal

Annemann has a few routines where something is drawn by a spectator on a slip of paper and then later reproduced on a slate by both the performer and the spectator.

It sounds to me like you're looking for an impression device where a good size audience can immediately see what the spectator has written or drawn and yet you can obtain the info on the spot. As Hal mentioned, the Clone Pad in its various incarnations was probably the best method for that, but now unobtainable. Receiving an impression that the audience can immediately see the original of is problematic at best and, perhaps, depending on the presentation, not the best idea from a theatrical or dramatic point of view. The audience is provided with a very straight line in terms of reasoning. Again, it depends on your presentation and the context you provide.

Personally I prefer to use impression devices in a preshow context. They are truly invisible and there's much for incredibly powerful presentation possibilities with them.

Are we getting any closer, Dave?

Mark

Yes, you are, but, it is unfortunate that the "best" prop is no longer available.

I've used the clipboard device I described above, and also used carbons. Neither I am happy with, so this is why I asked about clipboards on the market.

I also have used Thought Transmitter, carbon paper, and more recently "Notebook" in a very direct way (which you don't think is a good idea—you're making me nervous!). They write with my back turned. I simply ask for the pencil and pad back.

The routines I use and the way I reveal their thoughts usually, are several moments later, and so far, I haven't had anyone make the connection back to how they originally wrote down their thought.

But, I've only done this two or three dozen times. You guys have much more experience than I do in this type of magic. From what you've said, I fear that it may catch up with me. But I think the routine draws their attention from the prop. It's bold, but I haven't had people pick up on it (yet).

I haven't used it for pre-show work, because I've typically used these techniques in close up situations. I primarily do magic on stage, and the stage mentalism I've done hasn't involved this type of methodology (I do the old Bally Prediction, Mental Epic, etc.) However, for my stage shows, I think your ideas are great, and I will use them.

Thanks!

In close up, there's very little opportunity to use preshow. It's not impossible but is certainly much more limited. Therefore you must have something that allows instant access (like the Notebook). I would definitely try preshow work in your stage presentations, though. Let me give you an idea of how powerful I feel the technique is. I have written an entire book on the subject of preshow called 'Before The Curtain Rises'. I wanted to call it, "How To Be A God In Your Spare Time". Seriously. My wife talked me out of it...

It's proper use can create effects WAY out of proportion to the work involved. Absolutely unfathomable effects are possible. I appreciate the security that comes with being able to work everything you do entirely 'on the spot', and indeed, I have a ton of material specifically to fulfill that requirement. But when the situation and time allows for it, there's no comparison with what can be accomplished with good preshow work. Check it out.

Mark

Dave,

I guess I'm dense, but I still don't know just what you are looking for -- an impression device for words or pictures?

And whether you want to have the spec write or draw on stage rather then pre-show.

It makes a difference. I think The Notebook can be used for either. If pre-show then you have to have them draw it "again" for the first time on stage.

If you use The Notebook on stage, you will have to come up with
1. a reason why they write it down and
2. a reason why they have to write it or draw it again larger.

If you want it large to begin with, how about checking out Tarbell Vol 1 page 216, Telepathic Pictures? Maybe you could use this principle on a drawing pad. Fix it so you tear out a page and put it on the cover for them to draw or write on. Then you duplicate it on your own page.

There might be some problem getting the pen to be both hard enough and visible from a distance.

The more I think about it, the more I conclude that, unless you are going to get a Clone or Buma Board, having them write or draw it small first, and then use a dodge to get them to draw it again large is the way to go. "Wait a minute. That's not going to be big enough for the rest of them to see. Maybe you should draw it again on something larger, while my back is turned..." or something.

Hal

Hal,

To respond to your questions in your last post:

I'm not looking for preshow, and am more interested in words than pictures.

I would not use small props like Notebook or Thought Transmitter in front of an audience of 100 people.

I always give a reason for writing it down. People try to fool me when I guess what they are thinking. I know this from many versions of "think of a card" type tricks I do. To avoid someone trying to deliberately goof up the trick, I have them write it down for later verification. I've not had people question this, and when the routine is over, they have no clue how I had access to their thoughts.

Also, I have Tarbell Vol 1 on my lap as I write. Page 216 is in the middle of some card trick. Could you check that reference again? It sounds interesting. My edition is VERY old, fourth printing dated 1946 (original copyright 1927) by Louis Tannen Inc. There's no trick in the Table of Contents by that name.

Part of your confusion could be the result of me not being able to ask the question correctly. I've been doing paid shows for nearly 30 years, but am fairly new to mentalism. I was hoping to find out which full size clipboard on the market makes a good, reliable impression. The routining is a separate issue (I think–but that's a newcommers assumption)

Thanks,
Dave

P.S. How do you justify having someone write it down before the show? Granted the audience may never know this, but that spectator would be suspicious, right? (as well as any audience members he mentions it to afterward). I've heard of pre-show work, but I thought information gained before the show would be used various other ways. I realize I may be letting my inexperience in this area show here.

Dave,

You are right. It is Vol 4 of Tarbell. I must have been groggy.

I don't know about the problem of letting the audience know you had the spec write or draw something before the show. Geller does it all the time. I do it frequently. I just get the spec to agree in front of the audience that she was asked to go into another room and draw a picture, or fill in the time her first child was born (or something) on a clock face -- that I have drawn.

It is sort of like asking someone from the audience to confirm that she has never seen you before and you have set up nothing. Setting up something, means to have rigged the exercise. Get her to swear on a Bible, if necessary? It must be a question of how you approach the issue...do you sound believable also?

If you have had the paper sealed in a metal can or something, it makes sense that you would have had to have the thing done before hand. Then the revelation could be done as psychometry where you describe your impressions of what is on the paper in the can. As I said, Geller made part of his reputation on just this approach.

I'm interested in the problem of having a word written large and dark enough for the audience to see. With the exception of Clone and Buma Board, felt markers that can be seen don't work on an I Pad. A ball point probably is not going to be seen by an audience of any size.

I suppose we can't discuss this in depth here.

Hal

Hal,

Thanks for your comments. I like the way you incorporate and "explain" the pre-show work. It resolves my question nicely.

Good point about the dilemma of not seeing a ball point from a distance while a felt tip marker may not leave a strong enough impression. I hadn't thought of that! My relative inexperience of mentalism is showing again. But that inexperience is why I appreciate this forum.

Mark, I'm sorry that Hal and I are having our own dialog on your forum!

Actually, Mark, your responses on this thread and the others have been very helpful. Thanks for doing this. And stop apologizing when you mention that you carry certain books or tricks. People are free to buy from where they wish. You are only imparting practical information (i.e., knowing where to get stuff is VERY practical).