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sarjito New user 31 Posts |
Hi all,
I'm interested to findout about the legality of coin gaff making. A freind of mine is able to make me a coin gaff to suit my purpose, but I'm not sure if this can be claisfied as breaking the law (damaging the state property). what I would like to know is : how are those people in the bussiness deal with the legality of coin gaff making? do they make gaff from old coins therefore they are not subject of law or.....? any suggestion is much appreciated. Thanks |
the Sponge Inner circle Atlanta 2771 Posts |
I'm confused.
1. you've already made a shell. Did the coin police not arrest you? 2. you don't mention what country you live in (and it isn't the US) 3. call the treasury dept and ask the experts. s |
Carducci Special user Denver 543 Posts |
There was a similar conversation regarding the legality of signing a bill. You'd be better off contacting an attorney that specializes in that area.
Assuming you're in the US, if you call the treasury department (or the secret service - they enforce the laws in question) they will quote the law without advising interpretation. They'll probably say something like this: Quote:
Defacement of currency is a violation of Title 18, Section 333 of the United States Code. Under this provision, currency defacement is generally defined as follows: Whoever mutilates, cuts, disfigures, perforates, unites or cements together, or does any other thing to any bank bill, draft, note, or other evidence of debt issued by any national banking association, Federal Reserve Bank, or Federal Reserve System, with intent to render such item(s) unfit to be reissued, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than six months, or both. hmmm... If I'm reading 18 U.S.C. § 333 correctly, that makes all sorts of tricks illegal - from gluing a stack of quarters together for the cap and pence, to hundy/extreme burn, wonderland bill, etc. We would need some legal council regarding the definition of "intent to render such item(s) unfit to be reissued." |
Carducci Special user Denver 543 Posts |
Oh. Apparently 18 U.S.C. § 333 refers to paper currency. Coins are covered under 18 U.S.C. § 331
Quote:
Whoever fraudulently alters, defaces, mutilates, impairs, Interesting stuff... |
gaffed Inner circle So far I've managed to gimmick 1817 Posts |
Yes, for years I've always wondered how Johnson Products could get away with all of the trick coins they make, albeit I'm certainly glad they do! As far as I know, you can write on bill, i.e. your name, etc. as long as the bill is not defaced to a large extent or in any way covers and or alters the denomination of the bill in the slightest way. One trick that comes to mind which would really seem to be breaking the law in every shape way and form is "Fraud" by Daniel Garcia but...I LOVE it! Anyway, I'm certainly not going to lose any sleep over it but it is indeed an interesting subject and I'm sure it has been covered before on this forum at one time or another.
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Skip Way Inner circle 3771 Posts |
Here is the perspective of a friend who makes her living creating jewelry from U.S. and international coins. As already stated above, Section 331 of Title 18 of the United States code provides criminal penalties for anyone who:
"fraudulently alters, defaces, mutilates impairs, diminishes, falsifies, scales, or lightens any of the coins coined at the Mints of the United States. This statute means that you may be violating the law if you change the appearance of the coin and fraudulently represent it to be other than the altered coin that it is. It goes on to say: As a matter of policy, the U.S. Mint does not promote coloring, plating or altering U.S. coinage: however, there are no sanctions against such activity absent fraudulent intent." (Source U.S. Mint) As a retired cop, one of the key proofs needed in a criminal case was intent. The key words in this statute are fraudulently represent it to be other than the altered coin that it is. Companies like Johnson take this to mean that one may violate the law if the appearance of the coin is changed with the intent to fraudulently represent it to be other than an altered coin. For example: To fraudulently increase the perceived value of a coin; as in a counterfeit. Artists have been legally creating jewelry with U.S. coinage for centuries - but the coins were not altered with the criminal intent to defraud the U.S. government or innocent parties.
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sarjito New user 31 Posts |
Hi all,
thanks for the info. the reason I ask is not becuase I'm in trouble but pure curiosity as many company made coin gaffs. people that I spoke always advise to be aware of the law - this is why I want to know if those company like tango and jamie schoolscraft are having a special lisence to make those gaffs for their bussisness. pls don't take me the wrong way - I'm glad that they are making such an excellent gaffs I just want to make sure I'm doing the right thing thanks |
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