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Mark Strivings V.I.P. 290 Posts |
Hi gang,
Thought I'd start a couple of threads here and see what you guys think. What's your opinion on the subject of playing cards in mentalism? I know my opinion and I'm sure we'll get to it shortly. What's your story? Let's hear from you.... Mark
Mark Strivings is the owner of the largest all-mentalism mail order supply business in the world, "Mental Connections", carrying materials not available anywhere else. For complete info, drop Mark a line at MarkyApril@aol.com
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Ben Blau Inner circle 1475 Posts |
Hi Mark:
Thanks for spending time with us here, and for sharing your thoughts with us (pun intended). Personally, I think playing cards are among the very best "props" for close-up, informal mentalism effects. What else is as versatile and familiar to audiences? I don't buy the argument that thay inherently smack of "magic tricks." I think it obviously depends on the effect, and one's delivery of the effect. Ben
Ben Blau
http://www.benblaumentalism.com |
Philemon Vanderbeck Inner circle Seattle, WA 4694 Posts |
I think they should be used sparingly.
When looking at a mentalism effect that employs playing cards, I ask myself, "Can this easily be done with something else besides playing cards?" If the answer is 'yes', then I go ahead and use that 'something else'. Sometimes it's nothing more than Tarot cards, or Zener ESP symbols, or specially made cards. However there are certain mental effects that really have to be done with playing cards because of their immediate familiarity. OOTW and B'Wave immediately come to mind... I am of the opinion that one mentalism playing card effect is more than enough in a standard show; everything else should use other types of props.
Professor Philemon Vanderbeck
That Creepy Magician "I use my sixth sense to create the illusion of possessing the other five." |
davekilpatrick Loyal user Syracuse, NY 295 Posts |
I agree with the last two posts. Cards are great for close up with the right kind of routine. 1 in 52 odds are pretty intersting in terms of a mental guess.
But for a broader mental program and/or stage, I think they're a bit out of place, unless you use them very sparingly, as Philemon suggests. |
Rodan New user Sydney Australia 65 Posts |
I use Tarot cards as much as possible. I like to establish them and refer to them through the routine. Building on them and using the history and mysticism/bizarreness of them as a link between different effects, but not in all the effects.
I like working at altering playing card effects to Tarot effects.
"To assert the impossibility of a fact comes to the same thing as saying that it has not as yet been observed; nothing authorises us to decide that it will never be observed." Joseph Maxwell 1858-1938
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Alex Reeve New user 63 Posts |
I would use cards only if it's straightforward and doesn't look like a magic trick. I would use it in effects like "think of a card then I name the name of the card" or "any card at any number"
But if it starts looking like "think of one of the cards, then add three more cards and cut into five piles...that's your card" I will Not use it. |
tboehnlein Inner circle ohio 1787 Posts |
I see nothing wrong with cards as long as you do not make the mistake of perfroming the occasional flourish during a mentalism routine, as I have seen done.
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Tony Razzano Inner circle South River, NJ 1600 Posts |
My belief is that as soon as you take out a deck of cards, no matter what the effect, two things happen. (1)Some in the audience instantly think "card trick" even if its on the subconscious level and (2)you will lose a large part of your audience, especially women.
Best regards, Tony Razzano
Best regards,
<BR>Tony Razzano, Past President, PEA Winner of the PEA"s Bascom Jones and Bob Haines Awards |
ddyment Inner circle Gibsons, BC, Canada 2499 Posts |
I think that Tony has summarized the issue succinctly... and correctly.
There are rare situations in which cards can be introduced. Cassidy does it with the preface, "People often say that with my abilities, I must be a really good card player", and then goes on to do the card memory (with a false explanation). I think that this works, and is one of those rare exceptions. I occasionally tell the story (detailed in my book) of how my Uncle Henry used to show us card tricks when I was a boy, and how I could just never learn to do that stuff. And then go on to demonstrate how one day I was able to amaze even my Uncle Henry (with an effect in which I never touch the cards). But mostly, I don't use (playing) cards. ... Doug
The Deceptionary :: Elegant, Literate, Contemporary Mentalism ... and More :: (order "Calculated Thoughts" from Vanishing Inc.)
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Mark Strivings V.I.P. 290 Posts |
Well, since I started this I suppose I should weigh in here.
I'm not personally against the use of playing cards in mentalism IF the handling of said cards is absolutely squeaky clean and there's no possibility of any hanky panky that could have happened. That way, even if there are those in the the audience who do think "card trick' on some level (as Tony suggests, Hi Tony!), when it's all said and done, they can back track (easily done since the effect will have been crystal clear) and immediately see that this, quite clearly was not a card trick. It must have been something else. That's the way I approach it. I have several items in my case immediately available to me at any time during a performance. I will virtually never do more than one or two tops, usually just one (sometimes I do none at all, but I do them very well...). Since I have options right there available to me on the spot which I can just take out and do, I 'read' my audience and the situation and make what I consider to be the best programming decision at that point. Of my own creations I always have available to me: 'Open & Shut', 'Challenge Name-A-Card' (a variation on 'Premonition', I also have Ted Lesley's handling available to me, although it's NOT a 'take it out at any time and just do it' type of effect, my handling IS an on the spot worker), 'The Ultimate Invisible Brainwave' (although it, too, requires a bit of advance prep, I can be ready in seconds...) as well as a couple of other unreleased items. I also have my own handling for 'Par-Optic Vision' by Annemann (mine is called 'Par-Optic Plus') which I frequently use as part of my blindfold routine. In this latter case, this effect can also be worked without a blindfold and is also available to me at any time in my program should I decide to use it. There are a couple of other marketed effects that I have available along with these. All taken, I have a wide array from which to choose and make my decision 'on the spot' taking the audience and the surroundings into consideration. That way I can place what I feel will work best at that particular time into the program. Hey, it works for me! Mark
Mark Strivings is the owner of the largest all-mentalism mail order supply business in the world, "Mental Connections", carrying materials not available anywhere else. For complete info, drop Mark a line at MarkyApril@aol.com
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
Hi all-
Sorry not to have jumped in sooner, Mark, but, as in Steve's case, I have been on the road most of the last two weeks. Whether or not card effects can be presented as believable mentalism is strictly dependent on the performer. Actually, I do three card routines in my act- the card memory, and my versions of the psychomatic pack and Koran's five star miracle. (The latter is my alternate for the diary effect.) They work for me, what else can I say? Lately, I have been having great success using a variant of Harvey Berg's "Intercept" in close up situations. For those who doubt that card routines can be presented as the real thing, I suggest that you rent "Magic," the film with Anthony Hopkins and Ann Margaret and watch the "You Do as I Do Routine." If you have a copy of Max Holden's "Programs of Famous Magicians," you will note that Dunninger himself used at least four card effects in his regular performances. Again, it is a matter of style and presentation. There are no hard and fast rules as to what constitutes mentalism as opposed to magic or mental magic. (Although I must admit that I have had problems selling "Sam the Bellhop" as an example of psychokinetic control!) Best Regards- Bob Cassidy Is this mentalism? Only if you can make them believe the rabbit is psychic. |
tboehnlein Inner circle ohio 1787 Posts |
The internet is awesome I am fairly new to mentalism but get to recieve insight from the pro's such as yourself & Mr Cassidy. Mark I have had only limited exposure to your material mostly of which has been the Magic Menu but your previous statement about believing that what your doing is real & how it carries over to the performance I believe wil be invaluable. Bob your MM tape has been a wonderful education for me it is interesting that you mention Berg's intercept because one effect that gives me awesome reactions is Vernon's OUt of Sight Out of Mind & understand there was some controversy with those two effects. The other card effect is Out of this world or in my case Harris's Out of This Galaxy.
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Mark Strivings V.I.P. 290 Posts |
Hi Bob!
Glad you were able to jump in at the tail end of things here. I agree with you 100% about the use of cards (or many other things, for that matter) being a matter of style and presentation. I would also suggest (as I have done elsewhere here in the last few days) that if you, as the performer, have a problem on some level with a prop, in the case playing cards, then your own personal discomfort will carry over into your performance. If you're comfortable, your audience will have a much better chance of being comfortable, too. If it doesn't feel right to you, that's really all you need to know for yourself and your own performances. If it's doesn't feel right, don't do it. Mark
Mark Strivings is the owner of the largest all-mentalism mail order supply business in the world, "Mental Connections", carrying materials not available anywhere else. For complete info, drop Mark a line at MarkyApril@aol.com
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