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scottds80 Special user Victoria, Australia 730 Posts |
Hi, I am slowly progressing my magic show and am looking for advice on becoming a bit more professional with my lighting.
Until now, I have worked in house lights, or using a halogen flood lamp (the tradesman types). Firstly, about my needs: I know hardly anything about lighting, and I perform on a small platform/stage area and do not need a thousand dollar setup. I want it to be portable. I am about to purchase a Lighting Tree Stand. I have done a bit of research on Ebay and Wikipedia on the types of stage lighting, and been to concerts where they use colour filters. That's about the extent of my knowledge! So here are my questions: 1: There are many different lighting stands I have seen, ranging from a floor "H" stand, to a "T" stand (up to 4 meters), a Tree stand (4 arms) right up to a Truss (two tripods with the connecting frame inbetween). What would best suit my purpose for lighting up my small platform? 2: What exactly is the purpose of 'parcans', and what do the numbers mean (par 64)? Is this brightness, or angle width of light? How many parcans would be necessary for my show to be seen clearly if the house lights were off, or dim? 3: Is it necessary for me to get colour filters for parcans if I use them? Is this what creates a mood? I use the linking rings and have noticed that these coloured lights look brilliant on the rings. 4: I have noticed some LED wash lights in Ebay. They run cool. These have different coloured LED globes mixed up in it. Are these the way to go? 5: Is a fixed spotlight necessary? How does this differ from parcans? Are parcans alone going to be substantial enough? Any advice to me would be appreciated. What would be a good overall setup for me? I would rather find out as much as I can before spending money on things I don't need. Thanks. Scott
"Great Scott the Magician", Gippsland
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scottds80 Special user Victoria, Australia 730 Posts |
I just read more information about what I may need. A fresnel. No need for a spotlight anymore I think.
"Great Scott the Magician", Gippsland
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BowerPower New user 75 Posts |
If you are looking to add a splash of color, I would go with LEDs. Although I am not an expert and someone will come in and likely give you a better detailed answer> the LEDs are much more practical. Low heat, lower power consumption and portable. I would look at the Chauvet 4bar. It does everything you would need for a small stage and this would be for adding a splash of color.
As for lighting up a stage, the LEDs simply arent powerful enough to do it, but because your stage is small, you might get away with it. The other cool thing about LEDs is you can change the color without using any gels. If possible, I would rent and see if they work for you before committing to a large purchase. |
miscoes New user Allariz, Spain 94 Posts |
Some fast responses:
Usually, is better to have 2 light tree at left and righ. Tripods with horizontal beams are usefull for placing lights in the back of you. Parcans beam is a little narrow for general lighting. You can choose between 4 widths by changing the lamp but the wider lamps are still too narrow for general lighting. You can widen the beam by placing a white difussion filter in front of it. 64 refers to the size of the lamp and is the biggest lamp made. I usually work with 4 MFL (medium flood) 1000W parcans and it is not as brignt and uniform as I would like ( I do own 8 1000W parcans and 8 LED parcans but they are too big to carry to the majority of places I do) You can mix standard white parcans to give lighting and some LED parcans. Every led parcan can throw almost any color you can imagine but are very weak for general ilumination. You will need a DMX mixer and a dimmer for the standard parcans. If you, as I do, need color and lighting changes is better to have an operator or a specific software to control it. An spotlight is not neccesary with a good general ligthing. So, if you can afford it buy some flood lights (panoramas) and avoid parcans. |
BowerPower New user 75 Posts |
By the sounds of it, if you are going the old fashioned way (traditional par cans over LEDs), just some standard Par 56s or 64s with a 300 or 500w bulb will work. If you are work parlour style stages, fresnels and panaramas might be too much. It all depends on what stages you are working. Keep in mind that fresnels and Pano's are expensive and ParCans can be cheaper if you find the right deals.
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scottds80 Special user Victoria, Australia 730 Posts |
Thanks for your ideas. I am getting closer too a plan.
I should get a 3 meter wide truss setup. I can use it as 2 T frames alone if I like, with or without the truss. Ebay sell them very cheap! I can then choose depending what stage I am using. I can get a cheap 500 watt Fresnel under $200, and only use it on larger jobs. Now here's the next question.. I have found a 4-in-1 RGB LED setup, which apparantly provides a wash of colour. So would this be a good alternative to parcans? I would probably want a couple of par 56's just to have as necessary lighting if the fresnel is too much. Can somebody tell me if this is a decent plan for setting up my basic lighting needs? I don't have any i.nterest in changing colours. I want to turn them on and forget about them.
"Great Scott the Magician", Gippsland
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scottds80 Special user Victoria, Australia 730 Posts |
2X LED RGB Strobe Wash DJ Light Sound DMX Uplighting (by trilights)
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/2X-LED-RGB-Strobe......a846683d Can you check out this link above. It says it comes with 2 of these, and choose my colours to get the right mixture of colour and brightness of light. Would this be all I need do you think for my parlour shows? You can apparantly dim them and choose which colours on the settings. The ebay site has a youtube video AND instruction manual. Looks perfect to me! Perhaps still have a couple of par64's or a fresnel as extra light for backup.
"Great Scott the Magician", Gippsland
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miscoes New user Allariz, Spain 94 Posts |
Hello again.
They are suitable for color wash but not enough for general white lighting. Mine are: http://www.thomann.de/es/stairville_led_......warz.htm And I've tried with 8 of them... but no light enought for stage use. and: http://www.thomann.de/es/stairville_par_......lack.htm with 1000W MFL lamps and ROSCO white diffusion filters in front of them to soften and widen the beam. And the minimum are 2 or 4 depending on the place I work. A fresnel is a good idea (lighter lenses) but will again concentrate the light (and are way more expensive) Give a look to: http://www.thomann.de/es/cat.html?gf=pro......n&oa=pra Flood lights are the indicated instruments. |
George Ledo Magic Café Columnist SF Bay Area 3042 Posts |
I always get a chuckle out of folks who want to add lighting to their show but admit they don't know anything about lighting... just before they start looking for equipment.
Which leads to the question of, are you looking for show lighting or for lighting instruments? They are two totally different things. As a start, you may want to take a look at my articles on lighting, here in the Café, in the Buffet section. They're fairly short, but they cover the basics of theatrical lighting as opposed to instruments. If nothing else, you can't beat the price.
That's our departed buddy Burt, aka The Great Burtini, doing his famous Cups and Mice routine
www.georgefledo.net Latest column: "Sorry about the photos in my posts here" |
Sam Sandler Inner circle 2487 Posts |
Agreed you need to understand lighting well before you look to buy lighting!
that being said before you buy the best thing to do is locate a local rental shop that rents lights and sound for bands tell them you want an 8 can light show with board this will be 8 par cans 2 trees dmx board for controls of brightness, black outs, etc. the reason I suggest this is that you will then learn wh at you really need by trial and error then you will h ave a much better of what you wnat to buy or I shoudl say wh at you need to buy. most par 56 with reflector cups will be more then you will ever need they are smaller then the ever popular 64s but again for a small stage they will do wonders. but to back up once more you need to learn about wht to light why to light where to light and we have not even talked about Back lighting this is one BIG thing most magicians never do! I suggest you read up as George suggested. good luck sam
sam sandler- America's only full-time DEAF Illusionist
http://www.samsandler.com http://www.deafinitelymagic.com |
scottds80 Special user Victoria, Australia 730 Posts |
Thanks for your helpful comments, George & Sam. I would like you to know that I am only a very small time performer, it is a hobby and not my full time job. I have so much else in life to worry about and don't have the time to become totally knowledgeable on lights. Hence why I am here asking for a basic setup for a small parlour space. I am bnot silly enough to purchase a budget set of lights without consulting you guys, and the net first.
Having said that, I have a mate who plays in a band that I would be ok with two trees & 4 LED par64's pointed on me. I think I'll go with that, unless anyone here can tell me this wouldn't work. Thanks again.
"Great Scott the Magician", Gippsland
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Alikzam Elite user 434 Posts |
I've been looking around for lighting and learning about it at the same time as well.
So far in my searches these seem to be pretty good white LED lights. http://www.microhpro.com/ledmaxpar.html I found some others too, but these ones seem to start in the $700 range, and the others all start in the $1,000/fixture range. From what I've been told, one of these on each side of the stage should be large enough to light a banquet event sized stage. This of course is just for WHITE light. There are plenty of great RGB LED fixtures out there and they all have different advantages and disadvantages. Like you scottds80, I guess my searching and learning continues... |
Soundman New user 11 Posts |
I tend to use both LED and Par cans to get the best effect. The par cans need a 4 channel dimmer to control using DMX. The LEDs are usually DMX enabled. The best LEDs for lighting are the RGBW because the plan RGBs do not creat a very bright white light. You have to watch out for using two many 64 par cans on a single eletrical outlet or Extension cord. You will blow a fuse or melt your cord if you do not do the math upfront. That is why a mix of LEDs and Par cans are a good combination. use the Parcans for White and the LEDs for Color.
For the DMX control (If you want to change the lighting during your show, you can purchase the Enttec Open DMX USB Interface and control your lighting from a laptop using a software like light factory, DigiSelect or some freeware product |
chmara Inner circle Tucson, AZ 1911 Posts |
Lighting comes in many flavors - and is, to my thinking, an intergral pert of the show. It is easy to just make the performance spot hot with a simple wash - but that can add make-up, set-up and knock down, and visibility problems, often depending on background.
If you want to use the lights for dramatic effect, cover for certain principles and even programmed to routine and music -- you will spend a lot more time and effort on it than a good manipulator does with cards in his/her hands. In one incidence -- I remember talking at length with the Blackstone Show lighting designer about light position AND specific wave lengths (in Angstroms) certain gells gave off to effect the human eye's pupil in order to work the floating lightbulb. I am offering my full lighting rig elsewhere -- as I got to th point I was using 17' high masts, zoom spots, floor spots, leekos, pin spots and was jmust getting to programming color work in DMX when I became ill. So - watch your time investment - and remember - cheap junk is just that. Good lighting instruments are beastly expensive but last for generations and have durability built in -- with the range of working various small and large stages with only tweeks and adjustments.
Gregg (C. H. Mara) Chmara
Commercial Operations, LLC Tucson, AZ C. H. Mara Illusion & Psychic Entertainments |
Bill Hegbli Eternal Order Fort Wayne, Indiana 22797 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-05-23 21:06, scottds80 wrote: In the USA the parlour was a separate room in a person's home, these have been replaced by a Living Room, Family Room, or Great Room. If this is what you mean, then no lighting is necessary. You would be adding so much more potential problems to your visit, homeowners would not be very happy. I have done "in home" shows for years, and just trying to get a corner or space without a window behind you is a problem, that is why I use my own Abbott's Jet Set curtain set up. Just trying to understand what you mean by your terminology, as it is different in every country. |
scottds80 Special user Victoria, Australia 730 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-05-29 02:34, wmhegbli wrote: When I say parlour, I mean a small stage setup like you would find in a function room at a hotel, or a public hall. Bigger than a living room but smaller than a performing arts theatre.
"Great Scott the Magician", Gippsland
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