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Balaram Special user 904 Posts |
For those who are knowledgeable about these practices:
1) What small object might be attached to something, to let others know that thing is especially blessed, and should be handled reverently? 2) And what might be attached to warn others that an object is dangerous and should be left alone? Chicken foot, etc--? 3) As many practitioners are also devout Catholics, are there any special images or saints which are beloved and commonly associated with Vodou altars? All insights are appreciated, and no disrespects are intended, many thanks, Balaram |
The Curator V.I.P. Beware Vampire, I have 3909 Posts |
For the saints, it's easy to answer. Look for syncretism in haitian vodu.
Otherwise, I don't thing there's a defintive answer to the two first questions. |
beyrevra Regular user 107 Posts |
With Santeria :
( Sorry it's in french) Olurum Olofi : Christ crucifié Obatala : Vierge de Las Mercedes Oddudia : Sainte Claire Aganyu : Sainte Christophe Yemaya : Vierge Regia Shango : Sainte Barbe (santa Barbara) Oya : Vierge de la Candelaria Oshun : Vierge de Caritad del Cobre Ochosi : Saint Isidore Dada : Vierge du Mont Carmel Ochumare : Verge de l'espoir Oggun : Saint Pierre Babaluaye : Saint Lazarre Ibeyi : Saints Côme et Damien Elegba : Saint Antoine de Padoue Orunia : Saint François d'Assise Elegba : Saint Antoine de Padoue |
Balaram Special user 904 Posts |
Thank-you Messieurs Curator and Beyrevra, your responses have been very helpful to me. The list and picture--just great!
I am especially interested in the Vodou equivalent of St. Benedict, saint of exorcisms. I can find him in SHANGO as "Abatala", but this name is also used to refer to others. He also seems to be named "Zopah" in Northern Trinidad. Hard to pin down, seems the names vary. I haven't found the Haitian equivalent to the saint. And here is the reason for my interest: I have obtained a case of Exorcism equipment, which obviously began as the standard Roman Catholic kit, but has been more recently modified for some different use. I recognize some of the more organic accutrements as belonging to Vodou practices, some of the items are fairly apparent as to use, others have been sealed, and I do not understand the meanings. I believe, judging by the damage to some of the contents, that on its final use, something had gone terribly wrong with the exorcism, and the box and all its contents sealed and retired. I do not have the answers to questions 1 and 2 yet, and again if anyone has a special insight I would appreciate any leads. In the end, some of the contents may need to remain sealed. If isolation ultimately is required, the SUM in California will handle this; if they are unable, I will contact the Surnatum. Thanks again, Balaram |
Yannou Veteran user 381 Posts |
A few things come to mind regarding dangerous objects. First, the use of colors. The colors black and red belong to the Bizango, a secret society who occupy themselves with the darker side of voudou. You can also use the colors that belong to certain loa. Powerful objects in voudou are often wrapped with iron chains, it's the only thing that can restrain the power. Then there are the loa who are feared. You can mark objects with their veve. Overall, the Petro loa are more agressive and feared. They are considered 'hot', like for example Ogoun, the loa of fire, iron, politics and war. The rada loa are more laid back. None are considered more powerful and potentially dangerous then the twins, the Marassa, who are a bit of a special case. They are not really loa but stand above them.
From what I have seen from voudou objects, they are mostly marked with colors of the loa (often with sequins) and veves. Objects are also often adorned with small mirrors, to reflect negative powers but also to act as a gateway to the spirit world on the other side of the mirror. Google Bizango art, that should give you an idea. |
Balaram Special user 904 Posts |
Yannou thank you for these tips. The black and deep red paint on the St. Benedict exorcism medallion was the key, as I was unable to read the damaged veve. The string of dog (wolf-?)teeth, owl feather, vial of "pig blood" and black rooster foot all seem to point to Marinette Bwa Chech, or "Marinette of the Dry Arms". I don't know if the final owners of the kit attempted to evoke her help, exorcise her, or capture her in their silly little mirror box, but by the state of the objects, it was a diaster. NOT the Loa to fool with.
I won't go on and on about this further, but again thanks to all who helped with information. |
Dreadnought Special user Athens, Georgia 836 Posts |
I was born and raised in New Orleans and spent a big part of my life in the surrounding areas, mostly rural bayou areas. I have seen and heard and heard of many of the Voodoo practices. I am also married to a professor of Religious Studies who studies African and indigenous religions and is faculty at the University of Georgia. Both of us are active and practicing Roman Catholics. With that I'll say that most practitioners are not devout Catholics, however; they usually live in a Catholic predominant area where certain Catholic beliefs have been incorporated into the Voodoo and Santaria pantheon and rituals. Catholicism became mixed in with the various practices due to the French and Spanish influence (Both Catholic nations) in their colonies along the gulf coast and the Caribbean islands and the slave trade with one of the big slave ports being New Orleans.
Peace
"Ave Maria gratia plena Dominus tecum..." Scott Would you do anything for the person you love? |
Balaram Special user 904 Posts |
Religious syncretism is not a new phenomenon. It is understandable that the Catholic church would not be pleased with the changing of its message by the addition of the Voudo practices. I am an outsider to both of these religions, but if you, Dreadnought, as a practicing Catholic, feel that one who practices Voudo cannot also be considered a devout Catholic, I stand corrected.
It is certainly a facinating blend, and difficult to find solid, non-conflicting information. My found kit has raised many more questions than I can answer, I must admit to IROB status for now--which was why I asked for wiser informants in this section. Thanks for your post, and any offense was inadvertent and unintended. |
Bill Ligon Inner circle A sure sign of a misspent youth: 6437 Posts |
The Roman Catholic Church has almost everywhere allowed the incorporation if indigenous beliefs and practices, as well as allowing the identification of indigenous "deities" with some of the saints. This has been done, I believe, with an eye to conversion and to the eventual elimination of such beliefs and practices as the peoples' religion falls more in line with the teachings of the church. On the other hand, considering the lack of active attempts to eradicate such beliefs and the length of time, centuries in some cases, that has elapsed, it seems the church simply accepts such beliefs and practices.
In the case of Vodou, the veneer of Catholicism would appear to be a protective mechanism to ensure the survival of Vodou religion under conditions of slavery and servitude. When two religions come into contact, there is bound to be an exchange of ideas and beliefs, just as other cultural elements are exchanged. Vodou and Santeria are both religions brought by separate cultural groups to the New World through the slave trade. The survival of these religions is a powerful statement of their value and worth to the people who practice them. The veneer of Roman Catholicism is understandable. Dreadnought, I was born and raised in New Orleans, and my academic field of study was centered on the study of magic and religion. I am not of your religious persuasion, however. I think we can have some interesting discussions. As Balaram said about himself, I have nothing invested in either of these religious groups.
Author of THE HOLY ART: Bizarre Magick From Naljorpa's Cave. NOW IN HARDCOVER! VIEW: <BR>www.lulu.com/content/1399405 ORDER: http://stores.lulu.com/naljorpa
<BR>A TASSEL ON THE LUNATIC FRINGE |
William Draven Elite user Las Vegas, NV 486 Posts |
I'd be wary of toying with anything like another persons religion, be it Vodou or anything else for that matter. Make sure you do your research to treat your presentation with the respect it deserves.
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beyrevra Regular user 107 Posts |
The Voodoo was imported by the black slaves of Nigeria, Gambia, Africa West, etc. that are found in Cuba, Caribbean, Haiti, Saint Domingue,...
He has different names: OUDOU, Voodoo, MACUMBA, LOUKOUMI, SANTERIA... This religion comes mainly from the Yoruba people, and date of b.c. Its principles are religious and spiritual (universal consciousness and force the Divinity in us). During slavery, they were treted badly both from the point of view nation that religion and they found themselves in the world of missionaries (Catholic and Protestant). The slave who was surprised to practise a religion other than his master was "bleached", i.e. it was skin live. They will therefore have to make seemingly to adapt to the religions of the master while retaining their design déguisant their Orisha (disambiguation) (Shango becomes Ste Barbe) and SANTERIA (ritual disguise) was born. It has its origins in Santos i.e. towards the holy worship. This is a very complicated religion comprising of many rites, music, songs, symbologies, gods and captions. In the SanterÃa is expressed by songs and dances as well as discontent towards one or the other (Orisha) God gratitude. There are also holiday "for a celebration" (Bembe) these feasts, known as Oscha rule or SanterÃa, held the day, and when the practitioner is possessed, it enters shamanic evident by dances and movements stutter trying to imitate the gesture to symbolize the Orisha. Ritual and religious holidays are the highest expression of the transculturisation African dance in Cuba. The Babalao is a kind of priest, it is he who practice the oracles and magic. The yoruba Pantheon and its mythology is also full of ancient Greece. The Yoruba gods act as humans (war, love, betrayal, etc...) In myths told facts, adventures, and the life of these gods for later, mention them in the dances and songs, or painting. |
Dreadnought Special user Athens, Georgia 836 Posts |
There's no offense Balaram. I'm just a stickler for authenticity. If one understands Catholic beliefs then there is no way a "Devout" Catholic would accept Voodoo beliefs and practices. A person who is Catholic may do so, but not a devout Catholic.
On the same note, I stated in another discussion that I do not believe that a Ouija board with Egyptian hieroglyphs will be all that great. One of my reasons for saying so was experience. I hold an MA in Archaeology from Emory. Even though there is a basic, arguably, acceptable Egyptian hiero alphabet one just can't use it to start stringing together words in a language that did not exist three or four thousand years ago. On the small chance that someone in the audience should know something about what a performer is speaking of, the performer's credibility will be lost on them. It's the same reason why I, a former New Orleans P.D. detective, cannot stomach any of the CSI shows. Peace and Godspeed.
Peace
"Ave Maria gratia plena Dominus tecum..." Scott Would you do anything for the person you love? |
Dreadnought Special user Athens, Georgia 836 Posts |
Beyrevra, has given a really good synopsis of the history.
Peace and Godspeed.
Peace
"Ave Maria gratia plena Dominus tecum..." Scott Would you do anything for the person you love? |
The Curator V.I.P. Beware Vampire, I have 3909 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-06-01 09:00, Dreadnought wrote:On the small chance that someone in the audience should know something about what a performer is speaking of, the performer's credibility will be lost on them. Couldn't agree more... |
beyrevra Regular user 107 Posts |
The magician speaks of inaccurate science and person, but then again, no one can claim know the domain of the magician.
Religions, beliefs, and the real magic are discussed and analyzed for thousands of years and no one knows the truth. Then let speak they who knows, it makes her show for those who agree to listen to. The "only man" who holds truth, is the magician, because him, it's magic. Vaudou hardware is bought in the shops, but is manufactures as formerly manufactured. What is done with the fai is real. A Barbie doll, or a Neslé cow are valid tools! http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/2416/numriser0006ca8.jpg |
Gede Nibo Inner circle 2447 Posts |
Vodou is like a serpent. she swallows up ANY religious mean in her path. consumes what is needed, sheds what is not. vodou is ultimately formless, yet able to assume any form. hence her catholic correlations; hence a buddha sitting on many a altar; hence the gedes originally being of native carib origin. thus, feel free to find your own correlations, synchronicities with this or that path. vodou knows it is all one. for, when someone says they do vodou the question whose vodou and what vodou. haha. whodovoodooyoudo?
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The Curator V.I.P. Beware Vampire, I have 3909 Posts |
Vodou rules ! Yeah...
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Balaram Special user 904 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-06-06 15:26, Gede Nibo wrote: Thank you for your permission, Hougan Gede, the story will be told with respect for everyone. To be honest, the items in the box are telling their own story, now that I am listening, much more interesting than my original ideas for their presentation. For a select audience, yes, no question of that. I have received a few pms asking the pedigree of the box. It is from an estate sale in Florida, of one Marie Glapion Baptiste, who passed away in 1985, leaving no heirs. Some may recognize the name, she was widely respected, as a healer-and more. I am very, very fortunate to have aquired a few of her items, through a (distant!) family connection with the sellers, who were hired by the estate executors. Many fantastic and facinating stories and legends of this estate and its denizens, for those interested. |
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