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Mind Guerrilla Inner circle Queens, NY 2670 Posts 
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On 2010-07-10 20:32, MentalistCreationLab wrote: Would be betetr if people spoke up "louder" and named some titles. Why be coy? |
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dmkraig Inner circle 1949 Posts
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This is a fair criticism and I would go so far as to say that in many videos the sound production, camera work, editing and general production values are decidedly amateurish. The question is, why?
When you pay $35 or more for a video, you're NOT buying a quality production, you're buying a secret. That's all. The video is simply a modern way to get the information to you and allows consumers to think they're getting a better value than if you had 15 printed pages. Plus it costs the producer LESS to make copies of a DVD than to print those pages! You'd think that producers of DVDs--who have such incredible tools with amazing inexpensive cameras and unbelievably simple and powerful editing tools--would do a better job. Instead, the quality of the production--as opposed to the quality of the effect--is most frequently embarrassingly poor. But so what? Consumers THINK they're getting more--it's a video! It will show more! In fact, with the poor production values, it costs the producer LESS and because of perceived but non-existant extra value to the consumer they can charge more. All the benefits are for the producer and there is less for the consumer. Now, I have to admit that in SOME cases having a video reveals far more than any written text could possibly do. For these a DVD in addition to a text would be a bonus. Besides, listening to the way some of the people talk, I doubt they could actually write well enough to effectively present their ideas. But in most cases reading a book (or pamphlet) is much faster and more effective. So the answer to my question is that the producer of the DVD makes more money than if he or she made a book or pamphlet. You don't get more, you just pay more. Quality and production values are ignored. |
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Mike Ince Inner circle 2041 Posts
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On 2010-07-12 11:07, Mind Guerrilla wrote: Maybe I've sent a link to this thread to some of the offending producers. What purpose would it serve at this stage to name titles? Again, what good would that do? I'm not interested in discouraging anyone from buying the DVDs I referred to because they're full of good material (delivered in a less than satisfactory way). I especially don't want to hurt anyone's production business, I just want high audio production standards across the board. I also don't think it's necessary to "call out" anyone in particular on this forum, at least not at this time. That could be an ugly thing to do. If they don't respond to what they've read on this thread, then at a later time I might make my public complaint more specific. Despite the punitive tone in my first post, I do love these creators and producers (even the toadies) as good people and I enjoy their creations. Mind Guerilla, I assume you haven't run into this problem while watching instructional DVDs, at least that's how I understood your first post in this thread. I'm surprised you haven't run into this problem yet. If it's not your problem, help me understand why you care whether titles are named or not? I feel you're trying to push me and others to do what YOU want. Maybe that's not your intention. Are you trying to stir things up and get people frustrated? I don't understand your motives. If you have encountered the issue, if you think someone should speak up and name some titles, why don't you? I choose not to at this time. I don't believe that's being coy, I believe it's showing a healthy degree of gentleness, respect and restraint. It felt good to vent without negatively affecting anyone's livelihood. You're free to do what you want without judgement from me. I don't know if I can verbalize why I'm so aggravated at the kind of post you made above. Do I have to defend every post or opinion I make on this forum?! Not everything I post is an invitation to debate. Maybe I'm being too sensitive, but I'd rather fall on that side of the spectrum.
The secret of deception is in making the truth seem ridiculous.
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Mind Guerrilla Inner circle Queens, NY 2670 Posts
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On 2010-07-12 13:50, Mike Ince wrote: Because I'd like to avoid running into that problem. Would you prefer I spend some money and stumble upon one of these videos first? Why? Because misery loves company? I clearly misunderstood the purpose of your post. If it's not to warn people about certain videos then what? Is it just aimed at people who already own these videos? Thankfully, your pet peeve isn't videos that inadvertently cause seizures. I hate those. I'd name some of them but those who already own them know which ones I mean. Everyone else is on their own until I publish my new eBook "DVD Roulette". "Magicians helping magicians"  |
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Mike Ince Inner circle 2041 Posts
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Mind Guerilla, it does sound like you misunderstood the nature of my post. Sorry. I'd recommend the offending videos unreservedly because of their content. My post served a few purposes: 1) it allowed me to vent legitimate frustration, 2) it gave me a chance to connect with others who feel the same way, and 3) it is now being read by the offenders (and I hope they fix the problem in future releases).
The secret of deception is in making the truth seem ridiculous.
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24314 Posts
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I have reviewed a number of DVD's for MUM. I agree with the problem of the audio completely.
I recently was able to inform one of the fellows involved in the production of a really great series of coin magic DVD's about the audio problems and how to solve them. I really hate the DVD's that are produced in someone's living room by people who don't realize that if you are shooting a DVD using the mike on the camera, and you are in a "live" room, there is a noticeable lack of audio quality from the acoustical qualities of the room. Also, if the cameraman speaks, he will be louder than the performer. Some of these people have NEVER heard of "post production work."
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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gaddy Inner circle Agent of Chaos 3528 Posts
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On 2010-07-10 20:32, MentalistCreationLab wrote: Yeah, crystal clear shots of the individual sleights separated from all extraneous distractions and shown from all angles. Man, I hate that...
*due to the editorial policies here, words on this site attributed to me cannot necessarily be held to be my own.*
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24314 Posts
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Quote:
On 2010-07-10 20:32, MentalistCreationLab wrote: This presumes that the sleights are shown clearly. I would much rather see each sleight performed separately, from the performer's point of view, so we know how each sleight should look to us. Then have a shot of the sleight from the audience's point of view. But I don't appreciate having more than a couple of shots of the sleight. Better too many than not enough, though. One thing I do like is sleights that are illustrated with transparent props. Michael Ammar did this on his cups and balls DVD's, and it makes a lot of things much easier to understand. Now, if we could only find someone with transparent hands!
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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George Ledo Magic Café Columnist SF Bay Area 3042 Posts
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This comment comes from a guy who owns exactly two magic DVDs (one of which was a present), so feel free to take it with a ten-pound bag of salt...
On one hand, this thread reminds me of a comment made by Dave Bamberg in a Sphinx in the early 50's (and I think he was quoting Dariel Fitzkee), to the effect that there's too much tolerance for magicians as a group, i.e., that they tend to get away with stuff that other entertainers could not get away with. On the other hand, it also reminds me of the laments made years ago when desktop publishing programs hit the street and suddenly everyone was a graphic designer. Today, the equivalent is found on YouTube and similar places. So, I do have to wonder how many people in the real world would pay $35 for a DVD of a "Hollywood" movie with a really good story but awful production quality.
That's our departed buddy Burt, aka The Great Burtini, doing his famous Cups and Mice routine
www.georgefledo.net Latest column: "Sorry about the photos in my posts here" |
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bishthemagish Inner circle 6013 Posts
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If I may I would like to add a few thoughts that come to mind when I am watching magic DVD's.
There is only one reason that I buy a DVD. That reason is that I am looking for good performance material. If the magic on the DVD has something that I can use in my performance - a routine - an idea - inspires me to practice more or work harder on my own magic. I don't really care if the DVD is produced cheep. I have never been the kind of magician that is impressed by the box a product comes in. And in magic there are a lot of nice boxes. My pet peeve with buying a DVD or a magic product is that the box is very nice - but then inside the product such as a DVD there is little or no content. I am not interested in a show - I am not interested in split screens - I am not interested in collecting DVD's - I am not interested in a nice package. I am interested in good solid road tested magic that could be perhaps adapted to my own personal performing style. Just a few thoughts that came to mind.
Glenn Bishop Cardician
Producer of the DVD Punch Deal Pro Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs |
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George Ledo Magic Café Columnist SF Bay Area 3042 Posts
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I tend to agree with you Glenn, but I also think there's a trend happening nowadays, and I don't think we're really noticing it.
I just wrote a column on this issue, and sure it's all personal opinion. The link is in my signature below. Regards.
That's our departed buddy Burt, aka The Great Burtini, doing his famous Cups and Mice routine
www.georgefledo.net Latest column: "Sorry about the photos in my posts here" |
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bishthemagish Inner circle 6013 Posts
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Interesting post George - I tend to agree with you. And I agree with you about the trend - and that is also has been a pet peeve of mine for many years in regards to today's entertainment world.
Glenn Bishop Cardician
Producer of the DVD Punch Deal Pro Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs |
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24314 Posts
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Bish -- I don't mind if a DVD is produced inexpensively. What I do mind is if the production is so ineptly done that you can't clearly see or clearly hear what the presenter is doing or saying. It doesn't take much of an investment in time or equipment to make the difference between good and horrible.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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Posted: Jul 12, 2010 03:07 pm 
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