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Dan Bernier Inner circle Canada 2298 Posts |
So after all that, the problem you have is with the word "lure" (anything that attracts, entices, or allures. The power of attracting or enticing.)
I don't have a problem with that word, but some take the meaning in a negative way. I have already addressed that word in a previous post and don't see any reason to rehash that. I obviously don't mean it in a negative way. So, what denominational prejudices are you accusing me of when you have no clue what denomination I am? How does the word, "Lure" have anything to do with denominational prejudices? Do you think I was intentionally using that word as an insult to all my brothers and sisters in the Lord who are members of the Catholic faith? I do thank you for the info you posted, but I've read all that, and still stand by my statement. However, I will use a different word that lure. I will use the word, "lead" from now on. NOTE: Also, from my understanding and research St. Don Bosco never performed Gospel magic. He performed secular magic for children to lead them into church. If you took offense to that word, I do apologize.
"If you're going to walk in the rain, don't complain about getting wet!"
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Mike Maturen Inner circle Michigan's Beautiful Sunrise Side 2726 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-04-29 12:30, Gospel Dan wrote: The word "lure" gives the appearance of denominational bias because in context of the sexual scandals of the past few years, it gives the appearance of a slam against Catholics. And, of course, Bosco never performed Gospel Magic, because it didn't EXIST. He invented it. If you carefully read my post I said that he used secular magic to illustrate the teachings of the Church...whic is, in fact, what he did. Since there is no valid documentation of anyone else doing that earlier that I have found, this makes him the creator, or father, of what we now know as Gospel Magic. Nuff said...I think we have exhausted the discussion...at least I'M exhausted. LOL Onward in Christ, Mike
Mike Maturen
World of Wonder Entertainment The Magic and Mayhem of Mike Maturen 989-335-1661 mikematuren@gmail.com AUTHOR OF "A NEW DAWN--Weekly Wisdom From Everyday Life" member: International Magician's Society |
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Dan Bernier Inner circle Canada 2298 Posts |
"The word "lure" gives the appearance of denominational bias because in context of the sexual scandals of the past few years, it gives the appearance of a slam against Catholics."
Wow, Really! The thought of the sexual scandals committed by some Priests has never even entered my mind. Where do you even come up with that? So, now you are thinking that I used the word to refer to all the priests who have been caught molesting children? I hope you can understand that I can't take responsability for your way of thinking like that. I'm sorry, but I won't own it. I understand that you don't know me very well, but you seem to have me painted in dark colors with what you are assuming about my intentions.
"If you're going to walk in the rain, don't complain about getting wet!"
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Mike Maturen Inner circle Michigan's Beautiful Sunrise Side 2726 Posts |
Dan...at least here in the United States, the word "lure" most often has a negative connotation. Now understand we don't speak "REAL" English (LOL) like you Canadians...but that is my perception. I know many good Canucks...and we have had many discussions about the differences between napkins in our countries, as well.
AS A PUBLIC STATEMENT FOR ALL TO READ: Dan and I have had a very pleasant off-forum conversation via PM. There is NO animosity between us...just a colorful discussion! Grace and Peace to all!
Mike Maturen
World of Wonder Entertainment The Magic and Mayhem of Mike Maturen 989-335-1661 mikematuren@gmail.com AUTHOR OF "A NEW DAWN--Weekly Wisdom From Everyday Life" member: International Magician's Society |
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Dan Bernier Inner circle Canada 2298 Posts |
I see your point Mike. I have to stop using that word.
I also want to aknowledge that I stand corrected in regards to Bosco. Thanks for the info Mike! Canadians speak real english? Very kind of you to say, but so far from the truth. (lol)
"If you're going to walk in the rain, don't complain about getting wet!"
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Mike Maturen Inner circle Michigan's Beautiful Sunrise Side 2726 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-04-29 15:53, Gospel Dan wrote: Okay, okay...Canadians speak some bubble gum form of the Queen's English. We Americans just make stuff up...eh?
Mike Maturen
World of Wonder Entertainment The Magic and Mayhem of Mike Maturen 989-335-1661 mikematuren@gmail.com AUTHOR OF "A NEW DAWN--Weekly Wisdom From Everyday Life" member: International Magician's Society |
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Dan Bernier Inner circle Canada 2298 Posts |
LOL
Some of us Canadians still think we are ruled by the royal monarch.
"If you're going to walk in the rain, don't complain about getting wet!"
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Thom Bliss Loyal user Southern California 271 Posts |
If I’m not mistaken, it’s your queen who calls or dismisses parliament, calls for elections,
and appoints or fires prime ministers and those other ministers? And doesn’t she have certain other governmental powers as well? Thom |
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Dan Bernier Inner circle Canada 2298 Posts |
LOL
"If you're going to walk in the rain, don't complain about getting wet!"
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*Mark Lewis* V.I.P. 1325 Posts |
As a holy psychic reverend and man of the cloth myself I suppose I should comment on this matter. I shall do so by giving an excerpt from my memoirs, "The Lives of a Showman"
........................................................................................................... This might be a good place to recount an adventure that I had with the Irish police. I had found out that there was a horse show in Westport, County Mayo and I decided that the Svengali deck might do well there. Consequently, I phoned the fair secretary, a Mr Saunders, and told him what I had in mind. He readily consented to me exhibiting but didn’t mention any fee for the space. I think he thought that I was a magician who wanted to entertain people and was a kind of busker rather than someone who wanted to sell things. I did mention, however, that I sold trick decks of cards but I am not sure it sunk in properly. I showed up in Westport and booked into a hotel then went down to the nearby showgrounds. I went to see Mr Saunders who told me to set up in a particular spot. The fair was on for three days, Friday, Saturday and Sunday. The Friday was more of a setting up day with few people around. However, I seemed to be quite busy and was surrounded by kids all day. The kids had plenty of money and they bought the decks of cards with great enthusiasm and I was doing very well. I couldn’t seem to get any adults to come over and watch the demonstration but I didn’t really care since I was taking in plenty of money anyway. However, one old farmer came by and stared at me. He tut-tutted and shook his head disapprovingly at me saying, “Ah Jaysus, those are the cards of the Devil. They won’t let you sell them here” I just ignored him and he went away. A little later a couple of weather beaten country people came by and muttered, “The Devil’s cards!” and went on their way. On the few occasions an adult walked by they gave me disapproving glances. Then one old woman came by and cursed me to high heaven saying, “Ye should be ashamed of yersel’ showing the Devil’s cards to the children!” At this point I was beginning to think everyone in the town was nuts except the kids who were sensible enough to be spending money like water. The next day I returned to the location and the same pattern emerged. Kids spending money like crazy and adults walking by glancing at me with great disapproval. Suddenly the old farmer from the day before appeared out of nowhere. He came sidling up to me and whispered, “Ye can expect trouble. They won’t allow you to sell the Devil’s cards to the children. I just want to help you by warning you in advance”. I retorted that the cards had nothing to do with the Devil whatsoever and that they just did magic tricks. He then made a statement that quite amused me saying that people were going to call the police about me. He bade me good day and went on his way. I was beginning to think all this was something out of Alice in Wonderland. I didn’t take him seriously and it never occurred to me for one moment that anyone would actually call the police to complain that an evil man was selling the “Devil’s cards” to innocent children. However, I was wrong and at one point I saw two Gardai (Irish police) watching my demonstration in an unsmiling and unfriendly manner. When the crowd dispersed I was approached by the full majesty of the law embodied in two country yokel policemen from Westport. One of them astonished me by saying, “We have had complaints that you are selling the Devil’s cards to children” I defended myself by stating, “These are trick cards. They are nothing to do with gambling or the Devil. They do magic tricks. You just saw me do them. I sell these cards in Switzer’s and Arnotts” naming the department stores in Dublin that I worked at during the Christmas period. I thought that the mention of Switzers in particular would mean something because it was quite an up market store that would be far too posh to be associated with selling works of the devil. .......................................................................................................... There. Just let me know if you want to hear more of this saga. Ask and it shall be given unto you. Seek and ye shall find. |
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Chessmann Inner circle 4242 Posts |
Keep going, Mark!
My ex-cat was named "Muffin". "Vomit" would be a better name for her. AKA "The Evil Ball of Fur".
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*Mark Lewis* V.I.P. 1325 Posts |
I shall. However I first have to ask everyone to pray for a member of the animal kingdom. I am having to deal with a demented goat on another part of the forum. Still even goats are considered God's creatures. And this one is certainly a creature. Please pray for his unworthy soul everybody.
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*Mark Lewis* V.I.P. 1325 Posts |
Then here you go.
........................................................................................................... I thought that the mention of Switzers in particular would mean something because it was quite an up market store that would be far too posh to be associated with selling works of the devil. However, instead of mollifying the cops it seemed to irritate them further and one of them snorted, “Ah, you wouldn’t be selling these in Switzer’s!” I assured him that I was and he could phone the toy department there if he wished to check. He showed no inclination to do so and instead snarled, “Have ye got a hawker’s licence?” I knew perfectly well that a hawker’s licence was something that vendors needed if they were selling door to door or casually setting up in the street. I didn’t operate that way and only worked in legitimate venues. I was therefore perfectly well aware that I did not require such a licence and told them so saying, “This is private property. I don’t need a hawker’s licence” However, anyone that has ever been to Ireland knows perfectly well that logic has no bearing on conversations and the Garda (singular of Gardai) retorted, “Ah yes you do!” although I could tell by the look in his eye that he was just bluffing and had no idea if I needed a licence or not. I wasn’t fazed by this and insisted that I was trading on private property of the Horse Show and that he had no jurisdiction in the matter and hawker’s licences were not even an issue legally. I knew that I was in the right and he was in the wrong but he insisted on arguing the point. “Ah, ye keep repeating this private property thing as if you have a trump card. Well I’ll tell ye-we have a local magistrate here who is very good at deciding what is private property or not. We can let him decide the matter.” I knew this was an empty threat but again tried to argue logic by responding, “Look. I was invited here by Mr Saunders who runs the Horse Show. He was the one who placed me in this location. He and I know perfectly well that a hawker’s licence is not required.” Then the other garda chimed in, “Ah no, no. We know Mr Saunders very well. He didn’t invite you. We understand you invited yourself” I realised then they had been talking to Saunders and he must have told them that I phoned him. The best way to deal with the Irish lack of logic is to become illogical yourself so I responded, “Yes. I phoned Mr Saunders and invited him to invite me and he consented. So in effect he invited me to invite myself and since he agreed to this invitation that of course means that I did not invite myself but he did. So here I am” This nonplussed the country bumpkin officers of the law somewhat and a fresh crowd had begun to gather to take in the entertainment afforded by the spectacle of the ridiculous discussion under way. While the conversation was going on kids were coming up with money to buy the cards from previous demonstrations and I was serving the kids at the same time as arguing with the two gardai. This seemed to irritate them even more. They seemed to become uncomfortable with the uninvited audience especially since they weren’t making a terribly good argument and were beginning to make an incompetent spectacle of themselves with grins from the crowd and sniggering from the kids. ............................................................................................................ I didn't realise this would be such a long story. Shall I finish it. One more post should do it. |
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ChrisG Elite user Batavia, Ohio 448 Posts |
We may as well have it all.
"Consensus is the negation of Leadership"
M. Thatcher |
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*Mark Lewis* V.I.P. 1325 Posts |
Then here is final revelation from the Holy Book. I am referring to the Lives of a Showman of course.
............................................................................................................ I then asked in front of the assembled crowd, “Well, are you ordering me to leave? Or what do you want me to do?” They then shrugged their shoulders and slowly walked away looking terribly embarrassed. They didn’t tell me to stay but they didn’t tell me to leave either. I therefore decided to take the most profitable option and that of course was to stay put. I knew that they realised that they didn’t have a legal leg to stand on and they just wanted to harass me. I continued selling the rest of the day and did very well especially after the confrontation with the gardai which had been witnessed by a crowd of very amused people who also purchased the cards despite their status as being the works of Satan. However, at the end of the day Mr Saunders came by and said, “I am sorry. We have had complaints from the public and the gardai that you have been selling playing cards to children. I decided to let you finish the day off but I cannot allow you to trade tomorrow” I protested that I was selling a magic trick and was not encouraging gambling or the works of the devil and that I sold the decks in Switzers. He seemed to sympathise saying, “Yes I know that it is a legitimate product but I thought you were just coming here to entertain people. I didn’t realise you were going to sell things.” I told him that I explained plainly to him on the telephone that I was going to sell magic tricks but he either didn’t remember or pretended that he didn’t. I was irritated since I knew that the next day would have been the busiest day of the fair and I would have made the most money. However, I had no choice but to leave town. The only consolation was that I didn’t have to pay for vendor space. Anyway, I have now had my belated revenge by writing about the incident in this book. I wish to inform the world not to go to Westport in Ireland in case they run you out of town for dealing with the Devil. And don’t bring playing cards or do magic tricks otherwise you will be harassed by the country bumpkins who make up the local constabulary. And if Mr Saunders is reading this after the event of two decades ago and he is still with the Westport Horse Show I hope it rains every year at the show for the next 50 years. In fact since I now have psychic powers I wish to inform him that I am putting a hex on the fair from this day forth. Now watch the weather. Serves you right. |
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Terry Owens Inner circle Ft. Wayne, Indiana 1707 Posts |
Hey Mark, I use "The Letter" and it's a great bit...
I thought I might want to further explain my earlier statements since some are referring to what I've said...I have performed Gospel magic all across denominational lines, I've probably had been one of the busiest Gospel guys out there, doing programs 5 days a week, 30 to 40 weeks a year, booked two years in advance. I don't say this to brag, but to share my point...the bookings came from the recommendations of other pastors who had seen my program. It wasn't from my marketing, it was from the results that were happening in our meetings. I give God and God alone the glory for the schedule that I had...but the door opened because of someone in my denomination took a chance on me. They dared took the chance because the knew our belief system was the same. Just because someone puts the Gospel tag on their name doesn't mean they will be a blessing to a church. As a pastor now, I've got to be careful who comes and ministers at my church, I invite people in based on my personal knowledge of who they are or recommendation of someone I trust. |
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drango New user Fishers, IN 9 Posts |
When I do a church show I often start with a trick, usually simple, and say something like "Good magic wasn't it?". After the response I say it wasn't really magic, only God can do real magic and we call that miracles. What I do is tricks or ILLUSIONS. I play with that word a bit then do a trick with a fast end and ask was that real or just an illusion. That sets the stage. Sometimes when I return to a church I won't do that but will often hear a kids tell others about illusion so I know it took.
Never had a problem in a church but once doing hospital walk-arounds a lady said she didn't want to see magic, it was the work of the devil. Everyone else in the waiting room yelled out that they wanted to see it. I went to the other side and did the magic there. |
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