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cairo Elite user 406 Posts |
Funsway, I get the impression you are more of a one-on-one praticioner, that's okay... Putting the "out" topic aside, when you say "Whether I use Mentalism for entertainment, to help someone, or to focus someone's attention as a prelude to other things.." that's where you lose me.
Mentalism is a fake pretended power, like magic, and even if some unenlightened beings believe you have real powers I feel it is dishonest to use that belief as some sort of prelude,therapy, persuasion, focus, or for other ulterior motives that work only because the other person thinks you have some sort of real power, which, of course, isn't true. |
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Pakar Ilusi Inner circle 5777 Posts |
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On 2010-11-01 20:08, Mr. Mystoffelees wrote: Maybe they do!
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
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funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9982 Posts |
Sometimes when performing Mentalism, especially demonstrations of the Ethereal sort, a level of rapport is established or occurs that allows for communication or a "connection" close to what most would consider telepathic. I do not believe this to be paranormal, but is the shared desire to please and be understood on both a rational and emotional sense. I am sorry if you have never experienced this.
I disagree that Mentalism is a "fake, pretended power" -- especially the "power" part. Mentalism is a set of tools and constructs for the purpose of persuading another to change his/her perceptions about phenomena considered paranormal or psychic by most. One of these tools is the ability to forge an instantaneous level of trust, respect and empathy. This is usually done one-on-one with others as observers. The goal is not to teach someone what paranormal is, but to awaken experiences and perceptions already there -- to play upon the dreams and desires of each spectator to get more out of life than they have. Magic is much the same but uses inducement rather than persuasion, and physical demonstration instead of verbal constructs. Any "power" comes solely from the observer. ask a performer doing Contact Mind Reading who suddenly drops the medium's hand and completes the action alone. Ask the performer who can direct a pendulum held by a spectator from across the room. Ask the performer who can guide a spectator through a psychometry demonstration without saying a word. Ask a performer who contacts a volunteer after the performance to share the insights learned during a Cold Read demonstration. Ask the performer who has two strangers apparently read each other's mind and claim they do not know how they did it. Cairo, you toss about many judgmental terms as a reflection of your own limited perceptions, but fortunately, you do not get to define reality for others. The practice of Pretend Mentalism should make you more perceptive and aware of the natural empathic abilities of other around you, and of the magic also. If it does not you are looking down the wrong end of a telescope. Just opinions, of course. The point is that you should be prepared to particpate in, and learn from, any demonstation by a volunteer of hightened awareness -- and that having an "out" simply as protection against failure will stultify your own perceptions. Whether I subliminally direct a volunteer to a specific course of action, or walk into a business cold to see the business owner, or offer to help a stranger in need -- the same dynamics are at work, grounded in trust and respect. Having an "out" destroys your ability to establish such trust and is disrespectful of the other person who expects honesty and candor. It isn't about "mentalsim" -- it is about the foundations upon which it is built. I said from the beginning that I did not expect many to agree that always having an Out could be detrimental to the demonstration. I tossed out the idea in hopes of finding some whose experiences support this concept. And I have. Obviously you are not one of them. At least, some readers may consider using an alternative word to "out" when explaining what they intend. If you are "pretending" to do something when acting the part of a Mentalist -- exactly what is it that you pretend at? Each person in your audience holds close some experience of an unexplainable phenomena considered psychic or paranormal. Open yourself to it. Dare to trust yourself. I can only share my personal experiences. Please share yours.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
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funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9982 Posts |
For everyone else here, there is apparent consensus on using the term "out" as a part of "method design" and largely synonomous with "planned alternative result." The occasional use of "out" as a shift of presentation to avoid any admission of failure requires another term -- perhaps "failsafe" as suggested by one PM message. In my future writings I will attempt to avoid the term all together becasue of the confusion.
I thank those who wrote me privately with pro's and con's as well as all who "spoke up" publically. To quote Shakespeare, "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." certainly in mine ...
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
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Michael Baker Eternal Order Near a river in the Midwest 11172 Posts |
I do not do mentalism, so I may be considered unqualified to speak here, but I see a risk that an out may appear to be so calculated that the perception of actual mentalism could be destroyed. This could happen in much the same way as a comedy gag to conclude a magic trick. While the level of "lame finish" is likely more pronounced with a comedy gag, there still may be a certain amount of "awkward perfection" that indicates there was no effort in coming to the end... at least not the amount being professed.
On the other hand, suitable preparation of an out may address these pitfalls ahead of time, and it thereby become as functional as careful practice and rehearsal of "Plan A". An ounce of prevention...
~michael baker
The Magic Company |
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BarryFernelius Inner circle Still learning, even though I've made 2537 Posts |
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On 2010-11-02 08:27, funsway wrote: For me, the important factor is what the audience perceives and feels. A well designed alternative procedure that has been thoroughly rehearsed is never perceived by the audience at all. A "shift of presentation to avoid any admission of failure" that is perceived by the audience creates dissonance that destroys any sense of wonder. Let me see if I understand you correctly. In one effect that I perform, each participant has selected a pair of Tarot cards. They contemplate the images on the cards and try to discern a duality that is associated with the two cards. (Examples: light/dark, young/old, rich/poor, etc.) I, in turn, am reading their feelings and discerning what duality might have been suggested to them by the two cards. (In actuality, I know which two cards each person has selected, but from the audience's point of view, I couldn't possibly have this knowledge.) By stating a few of the candidate dualities and observing the participant's body language, I can discern the duality better than 90% of the time. Every now and then, I run into someone who I just can't read. I could handle this two ways. 1) " I'm having trouble reading you. Which duality were you thinking about? Light and darkness? I knew it! Before we even started this experiment, I put some information in this envelope that has been in plain sight the whole time. Inside the envelope, is a prediction. Look! It says Light and Darkness." (This could be accomplished a number of ways, including a nail writer.) 2) "I'm not sure why, but I'm having trouble connecting with you. Let me try someone else, and perhaps I can try with you again later." The first alternative has many different problems. It changes the effect from the reading of someone's feelings to a prediction, for no reason whatsoever. The procedure comes completely out of the blue. It changes an interesting reading into a cheap trick. It breaks the mood. It is immediately obvious to any thinking person that I've shifted the presentation for the sole purpose of avoiding failure. The second procedure is much, much better in the context of a reading. I simply have trouble reading someone, a minor failure. If I were really reading people's thoughts, I probably wouldn't be able to do it 100% of the time. Paradoxically, the minor failure makes the whole thing much more real. Also, other participants are more likely to relax. If I can't read them, I won't be blaming them for my failure. Now, just for fun, let's suppose that I'm not having a problem with the person at all, but I use the second procedure for that person anyway. I can attain the goal of relaxing the other participants and creating a feeling of reality by simulating a minor failure. Because my 'out' has been rehearsed and it fits the procedure, no one will know if I've really missed or if I'm just pretending. When I come back to this person later, it won't matter if I'm successful with her or not. Is this the sort of thing that you're talking about, funsway?
"To achieve great things, two things are needed: a plan and not quite enough time."
-Leonard Bernstein |
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funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9982 Posts |
Sounds great -- being aware of the changing dynamics is a form of Mind Reading in itself, secondary to the planned presentation. Your ability to "read" the situation is enhanced by the degree of planning and experience you bring to the table. My concern is that those with less experience and minimal "empathic" skills just throw in an "out" rather then create a learning situation. Obviously, it is easy to use Outs if you never give the audience any clue of where you are going -- the more specific the objective the less one can use Outs, but the greater the opportunity for an impactful experience. No risk -- no gain, or something.
Your second example is of the "prelude to other things" category -- perhaps allowing for a selection follow-up demonstrations rather than following a blind script. It is my feeling that operating without a safety net (no Out) is the best way to hone your empathic skills -- and recognize that many avoid effects that might have no out such as Hellstromism. Your entire program can be a series of alternative paths depending on what you learn about the audience and the level of rapport achieved. I have never done the same performance twice and never perform a particular demosntration "on deamnd" -- but that's me limited by my expereince -- doesn't have to apply to anyone else. If one views that skills related to Mentalism start and stop with stepping on the stage then planning on alternatives is probably sufficient. If , however, one views that every interaction with another person better prepares you for future interactions -- that Mentalism is just a "test area" for real-life interactions, then this dialogue might have value. I can't be one person on stage and another on the street -- so, I choose not to do much Mentalism for entertainment. But, I never fear a failure of any particular demonstrations as it simple directs what effect I do next. I guess you can say that one effect can be an Out for another. Thanks for the examples.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
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Mr. Mystoffelees Inner circle I haven't changed anyone's opinion in 3623 Posts |
"I am going to offer the suggestion that such preparation of an “out” is psychologically wrong and may, in fact, introduce the possibility of failure where none need exist."
My "SO" would agree with that totally, Ken. She is forever telling me (as I am forever losing) that the reason I can't find my reading glasses is because I have 6 pairs. Her theory is that if you only allow yourself ONE of anything, you will watch it like a hawk, 'cause you have no outs... Jim
Also known, when doing rope magic, as "Cordini"
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funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9982 Posts |
Similarly, methinks that cell-phones lead to procrastination and tardiness. Without the possibility of immedaite contact people would be on time for appointments. Since they have the "out" of calling with appologies or some silly story they do not plan well and have no need to meet commitments. Now, instead of "the dog ate my homework" it is, "I was in a dead zone when my friend gave me the assigment."
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
And bullets cause guns.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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mumford Special user 652 Posts |
Cancer cures smoking.
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Pakar Ilusi Inner circle 5777 Posts |
Death cures sickness.
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
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