Often, when someone releases a new product to the magic community, it's assumed that they're in it to make a quick buck. This gives people, especially on forums like this, the thought that they're allowed to immediately jump on their moral high ground and question that product and treat it as a quick money making exercise.

The truth, though, is that magic is rarely an effective way to make a quick buck. Everyone we've ever worked with on Vanishing Inc. has motives other than money to release their book, trick or DVD and I'm pretty sure that for the most part, that's the same throughout the industry. Often they want to share their material with the world or they want to expand their profile (the reason that many celebrities release autobiographies) and so on. My motive for the Master Pushoff DVD, for example, was to share my magic. I believe I have amassed a collection of applications for a technique that would improve a lot of people's card magic so thought I'd release it.

To produce a product or DVD takes months. To produce a book takes years. The monetary reward is minimal in comparison to the effort put in by so many people to produce a magic product. That's why it saddens me when I see posts on forums, immediately dissing products without consideration and without a decent review. The creator/author almost certainly isn't trying to make a quick buck; they're trying to give something back and for that, they deserve a little more respect than they are normally given.

What do you think? Should creators, authors and distributors be given a more positive experience that many posters give them? Who is your favourite author or creator? Perhaps praise them here and show them that you care! For example, I greatly admire Stephen Minch's work and everything he has done for the magic community. His books are clearly a labour of love.

--Andi
P.S - I hope that you will forgive this small rant, which acts as a counterbalance to the thousands of posts that litter magic forums with the remarks like I've just explained.

P.P.S - While I had always planned to post this today, I was coincidentally made aware of a post about my DVD in the close-up forum (http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......rum=2&21). This short essay is in response to the thousands of other posts of this nature I've seen and is not in direct response to that post, but it does serve as an pretty good example.

You are so awesome Andi! Thank you for this much needed post. I cannot wait to get myself a copy of the Master Pushoff but it will have to wait as I am but a broke student.

I'm gonna give a whole lotta praise to Mr. John Bannon. If I ever met him in real life I would be giddy as a schoolgirl. I hope he AND you both have successes with your new DVD's, Master Pushoff and Bullet Party!

Hi Andi,

Yes, I think we should give magic creators more credit. If we enjoy a book or DVD, the best thing we can do is review it on a site like this one. However, if a magician releases a product of poor quality, then they rightly deserve a bad review or two.

The main problem here is that many people still don't understand how to behave online. As a member of a forum community like this one, I feel we have a responsibility to educate members who behave badly. Unfortunatley, it is all to easy to post a quick, thoughless comment without considering the consequences.

When we see a post we dislike we should engage in conversation with the poster and tell them why their behaviour is unacceptable. Ignoring such posts because you "don't want to get involved" is a poor excuse, and allows the minority to spoil it for the majority.

I'm also a massive fan of Stephen Minch's work. Other authors I like include Lewis Ganson, John Bannon, Max Maven/Phil Goldstein, and Jim Swain to name but a few.

Marty

Agreed. Plain and simple. I saw that thread, and was surprised and saddened. Actually, I guess to be truthful, I'm not surprised as I've been around various internet special interest forums for some time now, so I have seen similar behavior.

I think you hit the points right on. First, how can anyone judge something before it has been seen and evaluated? One poster in that thread, for example, made huge assumptions that you addressed and countered, and then that poster still seems to have a closed mind and ears.

Fortunately, more often than not, I think I have seen people change their minds and apologize when their erroneous assumptions are pointed out to them. All in all, in my short time of hanging out on this forum, I have found it to be generally one of the nicer and positive/productive ones I have frequented.

In no other forum that I've been a part of have I experienced the chance to interact with so many great, and in many cases famous practitioners (both amateur and professional) of a given art or endeavor.

Think about all the great contributors here! I have seen posts by people like Harry Lorayne, Whit Haydn, Joshua Jay, Glenn Morphew, Stephen Youell, to name but a few. There are many, many more.

It all comes down to manners. Some people never learned about manners and respect. Combine that with questionable reasoning skills and a computer, and inevitably one's going to see some inane comments from time to time.

Andi,

I am pleased you made this point and a few people agree.

Greg Arce, has made similar posts and it is really important for
people to know the amount of work that goes into a project.

My personal rub is the guys who buy and sell just to find out how.

That is why I no longer sell anything.

Anyway good post.

Thanks,

Jim

You're correct that in order to put out a GOOD product, it must be a labor of love. The good creators truly want to give back to the magic community and help others, not to make a quick buck (or even a slow one).

As far as pricing goes, when I first got serious about magic 15 years ago in college and had to choose between affording pizza or card tricks, I thought everything was priced too high. Now I think it's not priced high enough.

Here's my philosophy... As a performer, how much do you charge per hour for your shows? $100? $500? $2,000? Obviously, your clients aren't just paying you for an hour's worth of work. They're paying you for a lifetime of study, skill, practice, and experience. (For $100, your clients could see Penn & Teller in Vegas.) Now, how much would you be willing to pay someone else for a product or service in which THEY are the experts?

This applies to all areas of life, not just magic. You don't pay an auto-mechanic large sums of money to tighten a screw--you pay them to know WHICH screw to tighten. When I attend music concerts both for enjoyment and to study other performers, I may gripe about paying Ticketmaster $50 for an elaborate show, but then I remind myself that people pay a lot more to see me. If an experienced magician such as Andi is willing to write books, produce DVDs, or sell an effect he's worked on for years, how much are we as his peers willing to compensate him for his time and expertise? The answer is almost certainly less than you're willing to charge someone for an hour of your time.

Can you imagine if magic inventors and authors made even minimum wage for the amount of hours spent in producing something? Books--which take years to write--would cost thousands of dollars! No, I don't mind paying $40 or $50 for a quality magical product, because when/if I ever sell anything myself I would expect the same. That's just my perspective.

Thanks,

Scott Shelton

People criticise a single move or trick dvd because in the "old days" you could get a book full of tricks. This is a massive historical fallacy. Look at some of the older manuscripts that were put out. They were pretty pricey.

I am pretty sure the greats would be putting out effects as downloads, DVDs and books too.

Magic magazines still offer the best venue for reviews in my humble opinion.

BUT,

Andi even you have to admit, there is a lot of crap put out on to the market that is either poorly thought out or under-developed.

One of the reasons I admire Vanishing Inc. is that you put out quality products and give good advice. Perhaps somebody needs to produce a book or course about the vocation/business of magic? How to produce a good product, how to choose the right magic product, ethics, fellow magicians, how to avoid liable posts etc.

Matt

http://www.astonisher.net

As someone who has produced and marketed numerous tricks and DVDs I most certainly agree with Andi on this matter.

People who think creators are all filthy rich are sadly mistaken.

Just my two cents.

Yeah, Matt - one of those "pricey" things was Out Of This World for ONE DOLLAR. My pamphlets sold for $4.00 or so. Pricey. HL.

$4!!! Who do you think you are? Harry Lorayne!

So if you were to buy Out of this World at $1 dollar in 1942 then today it would cost you around $13; if the calculator I used was accurate. I would pay that for Out of this World, I would probably have paid double that.

I didn't mean to insinuate magic was a rip-off. In a roundabout way I was trying to say secrets were harder to get hold of and perhaps more treasured (maybe I am wrong). You might have got a single trick or idea in a booklet but- and I am largely imagining here- it was generally of a high quality.

My main point was really that it is nothing new to put out individual tricks or techniques in a pamphlet form (now dvd or e-book). Perhaps the difference now is the ease and rush with which some products are brought to market.

Matt

http://www.astonisher.net

Back in the 1970's publishing magic was much more difficult and very expensive! There was no desk-top publishing software, no Internet. If you printed a booklet for an effect you had to go to a print shop and that was a pricey trip. Oh, you want color in that booklet? Each color shot the cost up even more! And on and on it went.

Just a little info for the youngsters.

I've been working for three years on a big book of Patrick Page's magic. What I received for the work was, to use a technical term, bupkus.

However, when it comes out (maybe in the Spring) it gets placed on the public stage, where people will review it, some will buy it, others will denigrate it.

Having worked in show business (New York City radio) for more than 25 years, you've got to learn to take the brickbats, even when you think they are undeserved. Now that I've been editing a magic magazine for six years, it's very much the same.

Getting up on stage and performing, or publishing something, or putting out a new trick takes bravery and a certain equanimity. People will say what they will say. Some may be right. All you can do is the best you can do. Nobody feels they owe you respect, and their visions of the big bucks rolling in is a comical fantasy. Success is getting people to part with money while maintaining self respect and the respect of those you yourself look up to.

That is, people like Harry Lorayne.

Matt Field