That makes sense, thanks Rick.

It also sort of explains why the govt doesn't allow deductions of services.

They want SOMEONE converting it to money in the middle so there is a tax somewhere.

Yes, our friendly government (USA) is fervently looking for "a tax somewhere" and all those legitimate deductions you once heard of are long gone, promoted to "loopholes" and then "tax fraud".

Many magicians have not given enough thought to "sponsors" methinks. It is fairly common to see placards, posters, etc. at baseball games, on TV ("brought to you by")- all types of events, each commanding a spiff.

Consider going to local businesses to "sponsor" a magic show for non-profits, etc. who can not afford to pay for them. The sponsor gets to mention it in their ads, you post a "brought to you by" sign, and the charity gets a "free" show.

The end user is not always the one that pays for the show... but someone should.

I like the Idea to get a sponsor. That could work for different situations as well.
Also shows could be build around advertising certain sponsors through the tricks.

There is a huge difference between "not charging a fee" and "working for free,"
the first being a personal decision and the latter a request by someone else.

I have chosen to perform many times at No Charge, but never perform "on demand."

If someone brings up a question of a fee I always query what they charge --
if an attorney or physician wants my time I would charge what they do -- $300 per hour and up.

However, if you use props they will have to be replaced for the next show as you don't want to perform the same
effects again. This is a reason to stick to propless magic. Doing kids shows, for example, you can easily "burn"
a hundred dollars of props in a show -- witht he mother wanting you to come back next year with a bigger show -- for $25.

Ha! One reason to never charge is that you can do it your way.

Just some thoughts.

My thoughts too Funsway! And I like to think that the shows I do for "free" are not free, just that I'm not charging. Good psychology behind that! I have a "no charge" gig on December 21st and plan on doing some experimentation; a good time to try new stuff and test for reactions. Best,

I have to slightly argue with Funsway on one thing. You don't need to use different props each time you perform for the same audience. I think there should be some variety in what you do so it doesn't become stale, but the props are still good props for another time around. The only thing I'd say you have to change is a prediction or revelation that is forced. So, if you do Chico, for example, Bill Abbott gives a couple of alternative ideas for repeat performances using regular decks of cards instead of alphabet cards so it isn't the "same trick" even though it is 95% the same routine.

With good magic, as with good movies, I can watch over and over. Because it is all about the entertainment. Invest in the time to become entertaining and you can use the same props until they wear out. And even then, that might be a part of your presentation if you wanted it to be.

Regarding charging, I am a volunteer sort of guy myself. All of my performing experience comes from time spent volunteering in classrooms during the teachers' break times. I got to try the same effects on 5 different grades in a day and got to think about different performing approaches for really young vs. older kids. I have never charged for my magic, but I would if I were ever asked to do a show.

If you don't charge, you have the potential to be the guy who folks will go to in order to have free entertainment. You want to be the guy folks go to for top-quality entertainment. When you can deliver, don't lowball your prices. Seriously. If I take my car to a mechanic, I don't go to the cheapest in town. I go to the one with the best reputation for my make of vehicle (not the dealer, in this case) and I pay $90 per hour shop rate. But it is worth it because I get what I really want, which is work done right. If I wanted to hire a magician, I'd be leery of hiring the guy who does it for $35 because that's too cheap to be competent. At $95 I'd feel like I'm getting a good deal if he actually delivers good entertainment and at $125 it would be what the local party shop charges for a balloon twisting clown with self-working props.

For now, as you are looking for experience, tell people "right now I am donating shows as I refine certain elements of my performance and trying a few new things." Make sure you don't say "I don't charge for my shows because I don't care whether I get paid." The difference is that you are setting an implied time limit and reason in the first place and in the second you are asking to be walked on. Next year, they don't call you up and expect a freebie, they call up and are aware that your show may be fully refined and worth a lot more to you now.

I'd say that as long as you can think of it as a charitable donation, don't charge if you don't want to. But if a mom comes up to you after and asks you to do a kid's birthday party, quote your rates as if you are used to working for pay. And don't significantly undercut the other performers in your area. If there really are not others doing it, set a fair price for your time and effort, factoring in the gas and consumables in your show, as well as travel time. It looks more professional and will make your performances at charitable venues more valuable to the folks to whom you give them.

-Patrick

Hi Patrick,

Along with the rest of the ideas presented in this thread, you offer more excellent thoughts for me. I particularly like your approach to not charging because "I am refining some new routines." What an excellent way to say, "I'm practicing on you," without telling them that! That's brilliant! Y'all have given some excellent ideas here and have given me very positive feedback on where I want to go and how to get there. I do wish to eventually charge when I think I'm worth a fee. I may be there now, but I still not some polish. I'm confident I will be there and soon. I have a Christmas event I'm doing "no charge" on the 21st of December and based on the reaction I get from that, I may take the plunge. I'm psyched about it and think I'll do well. We'll see. If y'all want me to report back after that I will. Let me know. And thanks friends! Best, Bob