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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16543 Posts 
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The Ethereal Suspension
During Robert-Houdin’s time, all of Paris was enthusiastically talking about the mysterious uses of "ether".[3] He took advantage of this by presenting an illusion that appeared to use the pungent liquid. He told the audience that he discovered a marvelous new property of ether. “If one has a living person inhale this liquid when it is at its highest degree of concentration, the body of the patient for a few moments becomes as light as a balloon,” Robert-Houdin claimed. Wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Eug%C3%A8ne_Robert-Houdin History of Magic BBC -Levitation- http://www.xploremagic.com/History-of-Ma......ion.html The Teleportation Device: 
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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mightydog Regular user Michigan now living in the Florida panha 156 Posts
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It worked during Robert-Houdin's time because technology in this case the "ether" was misunderstood. I think technology today if also misunderstood by the lay can be used to the same extent.
mightydog David
Illusion and magic is the same, if it was possible to achieve the impossible by genuine powers then it wouldn’t be impossible and therefore it wouldn’t be magic. That’s why magic is an art; the art of creating the illusion of the impossible.
Raphael Benatar mightydog David |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16543 Posts
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The Man Made Global Warming Effect would be a good one for today; Get the audience to breath out CO2 causing candles to light. The intelligent people in the audience would KNOW that the CO2 was not the cause of the warming.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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mightydog Regular user Michigan now living in the Florida panha 156 Posts
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Maybe...Maybe not. I think peoples first inclination is to believe your explanation if it sounds plausible.
If I may give a personal anecdote: I once worked at a papermill in Michigan. We made paper for printing greeting cards, stock holder reports, etc. One of the "tricks" we pulled on new hires was to send them looking for a paper stretcher. Of course nothing of the sort existed. However! the explanation I gave was this. When you look at the paper machine the pulp (beat up paper and water) is spread on a porous screen and a vacuum sucks out the water, From there it goes over a series of heated drums to dry. At the end it is rolled on to a large shaft. The shaft is not connected in any way. it is turned by an electric motor and the paper is rolled onto the shaft. Well if the roll turns to fast the paper is torn. to slow and you get wrinkles. Well you have to know how much tension you can put on the paper so you know how much the electric motor has to work to keep the paper tight but not to tight or loose. hence we need a paper stretcher to measure the tension. We actually have a machine that measures the bursting strength of paper a rubber circle that pushes against the paper that is clamped into it and connected to a dial. A lot of cardboard boxes will give you their bursting strength. this is how it is measured I told them that one end of the paper stretcher is fastened solid and the other is connected to a clip and pulled until the paper tears,the tension being read on a dial so that the tension could be read in psi. The psi was then used to adjust the volts and amps for the motor. so the torque of the motor was enough to keep the paper at the right tension. They would wonder all over the mill looking for a paper stretcher that did not exist! rofl Make a magical explanation believable and you can work wonders. mightydog David
Illusion and magic is the same, if it was possible to achieve the impossible by genuine powers then it wouldn’t be impossible and therefore it wouldn’t be magic. That’s why magic is an art; the art of creating the illusion of the impossible.
Raphael Benatar mightydog David |
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Whit Haydn V.I.P. 5449 Posts
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Quote:
On 2011-01-19 16:22, mightydog wrote: No, it was because your lie was so within the realm of believability that they accepted it. Ask them for something they believe can not possibly exist and see how they respond. Magic that seeks to be more believable pulls in the impossibility of the claim, or ramps up the proof of the claim, or uses theater--acting, story, setting, secret collaborators, etc.--to make the claim more believable or get past people's defenses against belief. I think in Robert-Houdin's case, he didn't expect people to believe his story about the effects of ether, but to lower their defenses, and give them pause. "Could this be some property in ether that we didn't know about?" In the same way, when the vanished handkerchief with the noble's monogram was found buried in the garden in an ancient and weathered chest with a parchment message from an ancient mage suffused with the smell of sulpher...Robert-Houdin created a theatrical atmosphere that made the magic seem more real and believable, even if he really had no intention of anyone taking it seriously as an occult phenomenon. |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16543 Posts
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I have performed Lennart Greens Laser Deal and my audience will always go along with the idea that the Laser makes the playing cards vanish. As Nevil Maskelyne said they will go along anything the magician suggests to get into the spirit of the thing as they are for there for their amusement. That is country mile away from them “believing” the Laser caused the cards to vanish.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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mightydog Regular user Michigan now living in the Florida panha 156 Posts
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Quote "Ask them for something they believe can not possibly exist and see how they respond." unquote.
Ask them to believe something is possible that they believe to be impossible and give a very reasonable explanation why it is possible and demonstrate magically that it is possible, They will at least doubt for a moment that maybe just maybe it is possible after all? And that little doubt is what we are after is it not? mightydog David
Illusion and magic is the same, if it was possible to achieve the impossible by genuine powers then it wouldn’t be impossible and therefore it wouldn’t be magic. That’s why magic is an art; the art of creating the illusion of the impossible.
Raphael Benatar mightydog David |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16543 Posts
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"I cannot doubt, after this demonstration, that you are quite satisfied the Jacks
have been fairly well trained; and I am now going to make them perform their acrobatic feat very slowly, so that you may all see just how it is done”.
The audience no more think the Laser Device is the cause of the effect than they think Well Trained Jacks are.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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mightydog Regular user Michigan now living in the Florida panha 156 Posts
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But the Jacks are not technology while a Laser devise is. You could say one of the properties of the laser is it's destructive ability (pop a balloon with it) Another is that the frequency of the laser can by modified to reproduce sound just as a radio wave can be. demonstrate this. another property is the ability to make these jacks perform acrobatic feats. and then go into the routine. showing that two properties of the laser is true and possible may at least give pause that the third is maybe possible/ A bogus scientific explanation if it makes use of other things the audience knows to be true can help convince them of whatever you want them to believe or at least confuse them. 95% true + 1% bogus = effect accomplished.
mightydog David
Illusion and magic is the same, if it was possible to achieve the impossible by genuine powers then it wouldn’t be impossible and therefore it wouldn’t be magic. That’s why magic is an art; the art of creating the illusion of the impossible.
Raphael Benatar mightydog David |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16543 Posts
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Well yes Jacks are not technology but trained Jacks using techniques are it seems to me. Ever hear of Card Mechanics? What we Card Mechanics use are techniques that we know and so what is not technological about that?
In any event my point is you show me an effect that I believe is caused by a physical device and I will show you something that I believe is not magic. The devices we use to apparently cause magic effects are jokes. They are theatrical devices that is all they are and our audience are aware of that.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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Whit Haydn V.I.P. 5449 Posts
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Quote:
On 2011-01-20 12:08, tommy wrote: Don't forget that it is quite possible for a charlatan to actually convince the suckers that the machine prints money, causes perpetual motion, cold fusion and so on. It is just as possible for a magician to create such a belief in someone. The wink or smile is sometimes the only difference. My teleportation device is an obvious fake. It doesn't have to be. I could just as easily bring someone near the point of belief. My mentor in Durham, NC was Wallace Lee. He invented a device in the thirties that was a cylindrical system of tubes and stuff that was a mechanical calculator. It could, much like a slide rule, solve complicated equations to determine the day of the week for any date in history. As a fourteen year old, I believed him completely, and so did my father. Later I found out the machine was a fake, and he actually did all the calculations in his head and just set a dial to the right day of the week. I asked him why he let the machine take the credit for his abilities. He said, "Meeting someone who can do complicated math in his head is merely unusual and interesting. Seeing a mechanical machine that can think is amazing." The Chess Playing Turk was supposedly a thinking machine. Many believed it. Many tried to disprove it. The dilemma is strongest when it is closest to charlatanry. |
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Donal Chayce Inner circle 1770 Posts
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Quote:
On 2011-01-20 15:11, Whit Haydn wrote: Oh, that's very interesting. |
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mightydog Regular user Michigan now living in the Florida panha 156 Posts
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Quote:
On 2011-01-20 12:08, tommy wrote: I would say that depends on the beliefs of the audience. If we take a television to a tribe in the Amazons who have never seen any technology greater than metal knife blades. Vanish a person and show a video of them on television and it Seems to me they might believe that by your powerful magic you shrunk people in size and was keeping them in that little black box. It all depends on the beliefs held by your audience and how strong those beliefs are. mightydog David
Illusion and magic is the same, if it was possible to achieve the impossible by genuine powers then it wouldn’t be impossible and therefore it wouldn’t be magic. That’s why magic is an art; the art of creating the illusion of the impossible.
Raphael Benatar mightydog David |
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mightydog Regular user Michigan now living in the Florida panha 156 Posts
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Another question what about using technology as a method to create an effect? A method unseen? How does that fit in?
mightydog David
Illusion and magic is the same, if it was possible to achieve the impossible by genuine powers then it wouldn’t be impossible and therefore it wouldn’t be magic. That’s why magic is an art; the art of creating the illusion of the impossible.
Raphael Benatar mightydog David |
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mightydog Regular user Michigan now living in the Florida panha 156 Posts
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And maybe a little off topic but I would like to thank you gentlemen for keeping this civil. I am knew to the forums but what I have read some of the postings degenerated in to personal attacks rather than keeping to the subject at hand. Speaking with you all has been a pleasant experience. And Whit love the teaching videos you have. I even changed my mind concerning comedy and magic if you remember our conversation and the posting of Mr Haley. Anyway back to subject.
mightydog David
Illusion and magic is the same, if it was possible to achieve the impossible by genuine powers then it wouldn’t be impossible and therefore it wouldn’t be magic. That’s why magic is an art; the art of creating the illusion of the impossible.
Raphael Benatar mightydog David |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27300 Posts
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I like the idea of "technology" as plot device but prefer to keep any actual technology behind the curtain.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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mightydog Regular user Michigan now living in the Florida panha 156 Posts
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Sort of like the Wizard of Oz
mightydog David
Illusion and magic is the same, if it was possible to achieve the impossible by genuine powers then it wouldn’t be impossible and therefore it wouldn’t be magic. That’s why magic is an art; the art of creating the illusion of the impossible.
Raphael Benatar mightydog David |
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Posted: Jan 17, 2011 10:07 pm 
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