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bsears Inner circle Cincinnati, Ohio 1040 Posts |
Whit - I TOTALLY understand that the performers had no control over their shots on Letterman. In fact, I have heard Ammar say that the performers were lied to by producers who promised to use the "best" shots. I have complete respect for these performers. My comment was only intended to point out the irony that the cameras work FOR Chris and AGAINST these guys on Letterman, sad as both cases are.
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magictvlv1 New user 61 Posts |
Speaking as a TV person(television, not transvestite), and someone who may be doing his thesis on the subject. I think Penn and Teller (and Michael Goudot) did a great thing in "Off The Deep End" by telling the audience explicitly, that what they were seeing was a one eyed time restricted view of an occurance that was designed to fool them.
It is ironic that CA chose a "reality show" format and then scripted that reality. It goes with an earlier discussion on whether it is okay to lie to the audience. Frankly, I don't think lying to the audience is acceptable, but what is lying? BY placing a camera in a particular place is that lying? BY using a camera at all, is that lying? When people ask me if David Blaine is a good magician, I tell them I would have to speak to his editor. When they ask me about Angel, I say I would have loved to have seen his show before he took off the make-up. When people ask me about Houdini, I say, I never saw him, but the current consensus is that he was better at publicity than performance. In Copperfield's defense, he made a distinction between the Grand Canyon and the rest of the performance in his script. We are living in a different world. In 1900, cutting a trapdoor in the stage for a short engagement was not even a question of contention. Now it is almost heresy. I am not a fan of camera tricks, but where does the line fall... The blue room can be considered a basis for many classical camera tricks, yet it was performed on stage. Frankly many of the stage effects of the 19th and early 20th century could not be performed on television because they look too much like camera tricks. These are questions that define where we are right now. |
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movemonkey Loyal user Detroit, USA 210 Posts |
I think Cyril Takayama has found the right middle between camera editing and real creativity. The guy also has skill and charisma.
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coollter_mik New user 16 Posts |
Criss Angel levitation vanish http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAfA2NRSkZ4
Dynamo levitation in Sao Paulo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQIhpZ4PQdM Dynamo hoodie vanish http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iw3bxLDML0o All the debates around modern TV magicians Dynamo, Cyril and Criss Angel these days should be gathered in one and unique question: Can post editing video tools be considered as a magic method? Most old school magicians will immediately say no, camera tricks are not magic, magic has to be done live... your audience should see what live audience sees... But on the other hand some will argue that for television, we should rethink how to present magic, because some classic method just won't work for TV So is the use of camera tricks legal? If we rethink the question, Copperfield "Floating Over the Grand Canyon" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quDXr3gJpgk should be considered as the first generation of CG video edited magic... so... if even Copperfield, the greatest magician ever, used video editing and camera tricks to accomplish some of his reputation makers effects, why are there so much criticisms toward Dynamo? The question may not be "Can we use camera tricks?" but how much do we use? Or how clever are the ways we use them as a hidden tool? |
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Pakar Ilusi Inner circle 5777 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-01-27 20:53, coollter_mik wrote: No one will really follow any rules. That's the whole issue.
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
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Dougini Inner circle The Beautiful State Of Maine 7130 Posts |
And...when Angel vanished during his "levitation", he plainly stated, "NO camera tricks!" So flat out lying is OK?
Hmmm...I'd better keep my opinion to myself. There is much more here than simple camera trickery that is so VERY wrong... Doug |
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Urban New user Toronto, CAN 12 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-11-21 02:42, movemonkey wrote: I agree. I think camera work is a neccessary evil. If a well thought out show balances great performance, charisma, and charm it makes for great TV magic shows. I recently watched an episode of "Cyril- simply magic". The scenes with camera tricks mix well with scenes using sleight of hand. For example I remember one segmet which was the "club scene". Him having drinks and partying the night away... with magic! He started the day with a clothe changing effect. He did a coin to match book effect. He 'litterally' put the coin into the match book. After... he did his famous cigarette routine. |
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PhilDean Elite user 445 Posts |
For me it's called 'progress'. There are only so many things you can rework and when you have to come up with fresh content for a TV show, I don't think anyone can be blamed for using the advantages of the medium to create more unique effects.
Some camera tricks are quite well planned and set up from my experience compared to the older tricks of just cutting and splicing tape. We create illusions, therefore it is ok to use whatever you can to create an illusion. The Dynamo hoodie vanish before seemed a little bit old hat, but I didn't mind the Angel Levitate vanish. The levitation was dodgy as all get out, but the vanish was pretty decent. I think what scares magicians the most about camera tricks is the apparent lack of skill involved in pulling them off, or at least the perceived lack of skill. Anyone working in television production would probably love to debate this point. I wonder if we'll get to the point (perhaps we have - I do live under a rock) where a performer will truly revolutionise the concept of camera tricks with a grand illusion. Something where the spectator could be told 'it's a camera trick' but they'd react 'I don't care it was the coolest thing I've ever seen'? |
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magic4545 Inner circle Jimmy Fingers 1159 Posts |
Great magic can only be done live since all of this. Kind of a good thing, actually, for us. Public trust is gone. We sit by, quietly, while our television credibility erodes.
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Pakar Ilusi Inner circle 5777 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-04-10 10:07, magic4545 wrote: Yes, it seems we sit by. Sad, really...
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
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