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Magic-Daniel Inner circle Denmark 1328 Posts |
Hi.
I'm looking to get working on some memorized deck works. First of all, I'm looking for a stack to remember! I don't care if this stack can be faro'ed into by a new deck or something. Which stack can you guys recommend me? And what books in general on this subject? Daniel |
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kentfgunn Inner circle Merritt Island FL 1639 Posts |
Simon Aronson has a pdf that will act as a far better source to answer your question than all of the blathering on the Caf�.
Go here. http://www.simonaronson.com Look for the file; memories are made of this. You have to go through the password protected question to get there. I think you can easily answer the question. PS. Andrew, you weren't one of the blatherers, to whom I was referring. KG |
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Nicolino Inner circle 2893 Posts |
Aronson's introduction is indeed a great resource! Besides, you can't go wrong studying all the Aronson stuff as soon as you're seriously working on mem decks - he has some the greatest publications on that subject!
By the way: You might have noticed - I'm a fanboy,!
The Mati Envelope
A brandnew peek device for the working mentalist! Chance's Token Tarot cards in a scenic piece of mystery..... |
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Nicolino Inner circle 2893 Posts |
Let me add that Dennis Loomis' page is also a worthwhile place to go:
http://dennisloomis.com/memdeck/index.html
The Mati Envelope
A brandnew peek device for the working mentalist! Chance's Token Tarot cards in a scenic piece of mystery..... |
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JanForster Inner circle Germany ... when not traveling... 4190 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-04-06 04:32, nicolino wrote: And you are not alone... Jan
Jan Forster
www.janforster.de |
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Merc Man Inner circle NUNEATON, Warwickshire 2537 Posts |
I'd highly recommend Joe Riding's system - it's undoubtedly the best methodology I've studied.
Why? Simply because once you've learnt his system, you can have 13 DIFFERENT packs with a completely DIFFERENT rotation yet still know instantly which card occupies whatever position in each deck. I think that this was a first for memorised deck magic, yet like most of Joe Riding's creativity, it never received the recognition that it duly deserved (or duly got stolen and claimed by other people - e.g. his diary system was basically robbed by Banacheck). I've also read good recommendations of the book by Juan Tamariz, titled 'Mnemonica'. I've noticed how often this book sells cheaply for on ebaY and MagicWeek. Clearly a lot of people buy a book on memorized deck magic by a true genius, then find it far too difficult to learn the position of just 52 cards (or more likely, they prefer 'instant' magic and expect the deck/tricks to do all the work for them without putting the effort in to learn it).
Barry Allen
Over 14 years have passed - and still missing Abra Magazine arriving every Saturday morning. |
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Chessmann Inner circle 4242 Posts |
Merc, what cards to you think work best for a memorized deck? Do you think....
Oh, nevermind.
My ex-cat was named "Muffin". "Vomit" would be a better name for her. AKA "The Evil Ball of Fur".
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BenSalinas Special user Coinoscenti 746 Posts |
I really like Simon Aronson's stack. It's got 2 1/2 books worth of effects built into it! Aside from being in a memorized order, there are Poker Deals, Bridge Deals, Stud deals, cards that spell to themselves, reciprocal spell pairs, the list goes on and on.
Definitely worth learning.
Your Friendly Neighborhood Coin Flinger
www.SalinasMagic.com The Modern Coin Magic blog www.ModernCoinMagic.com |
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BenSalinas Special user Coinoscenti 746 Posts |
Nicolino,
Thanks for the link! Great stuff! Quote: On 2011-04-06 04:38, nicolino wrote:
Your Friendly Neighborhood Coin Flinger
www.SalinasMagic.com The Modern Coin Magic blog www.ModernCoinMagic.com |
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ddyment Inner circle Gibsons, BC, Canada 2499 Posts |
You'll find no shortage of opinions on this, as everyone who's ever gone to the trouble of memorizing a stack has a favourite: the one they memorized. The truth is that unless you have an overriding interest in very specific tricks that require a special setup (like poker deals), any good memorized deck will be a "killer" tool.
I always encourage anyone interested in this topic to peruse "An Introduction to Full-Deck Stacks", which expands considerably on several associated issues, particularly the techniques used to learn the stack.
The Deceptionary :: Elegant, Literate, Contemporary Mentalism ... and More :: (order "Calculated Thoughts" from Vanishing Inc.)
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Nicolino Inner circle 2893 Posts |
As you are a novice and still have the option to choose which stack you settle on you can set your preferences:
will you be learning a stack that has a lot of potential in case you get addicted to stack magic (then choose one of those "big" ones which have been exploited thoroughly (Tamariz, Aronson, Joyal) and for which there is a lot of literature) OR you opt for a not-so-much-used stack where you will not immediately get unmasked as soon as you flash the deck with 9D at the bottom.... In essence, one well hidden full stack is not harder to learn than the other - and as Doug pointed out, as soon as you have chosen YOUR stack you will love it. Enjoy stack magic! Felix
The Mati Envelope
A brandnew peek device for the working mentalist! Chance's Token Tarot cards in a scenic piece of mystery..... |
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Steven Keyl Inner circle Washington, D.C. 2630 Posts |
I've said it many times before but Doug has an excellent stack in his book "Mindsights." It is a stack that allows one to quickly and easily compute the value of any card at any location. In fact, I liked it so much I went ahead and made that my memorized deck. There are no "built-in effects" per se as with the Aronson or Tamariz stacks but it has other advantages which more than make up for what it lacks.
Steven Keyl - The Human Whisperer!
B2B Magazine Test! Best impromptu progressive Ace Assembly ever! "If you ever find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause, and reflect." --Mark Twain |
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Magic-Daniel Inner circle Denmark 1328 Posts |
If I were to learn the stack of either Simon Aronson or Martin Joyal, could I still perform all the effects in "Mnemonica" - and vice versa?
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Turk Inner circle Portland, OR 3546 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-04-09 22:13, Magic-Daniel wrote: No. There are some effect that are what are called "Stack Dependent". That means those effects can only be performed with the stack that the effect is created for and is "dependent" upon. I know that some effects are stack dependent on the Aronson Stack and some effects are stack dependent on the Tamariz stack...and never the two shall meet. (As to the Joyal Stack, I'm not familiar with it so I don't know if any "stack dependent" effects have been written up for it. It wouldn't surprise me if they had, but I just do not know.) That said, don't the exclusivity of "stack dependent" effects get you down. Most memorized deck effects are not stack dependent, and, IMHO, as a group, the stack independent effects are far superior to the effects that are stack dependent. (Again, just IMHO; your mileage may vary in this regard.) Now, that said, there are some interesting effects (i.e., such as poker dealing demonstrations, productions of "Four of a Kind", etc.) that are stack dependent--some of which, upon the conclusion of the effect(s), have been designed to allow the deck back to be restored back to memorized deck order with little or now effort or moves. In his "Try the Impossible" book, Simon Aronson has an entire chapter devoted to (Aronson Stack) stack dependent effects that either maintain or restore the deck back to Aronson stack order with little or no effort. Simon confirms that these "stack dependent" effects either maintain or restore the deck to memorized deck order at the conclusion of the effect. In these same remarks, Simon also points out that, since the deck is easily restored at the end of each effect, the performer theoretically is not even required to have memorized his Aronson Stack memorized deck stack order. Instead, all the performer has to do is start out in memorized deck order, and, upon completion of the effect, merely return the cards used (and removed) in the effect back where they were in the memorized deck. (Of course, Simon also points out that having memorized the deck's stack order in the first place makes the "restoration process" infinitely easier and safer to do.) Hope that helps. Mike
Magic is a vanishing Art.
This must not be Kansas anymore, Toto. Eschew obfuscation. |
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Nicolino Inner circle 2893 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-04-09 23:48, Turk wrote: I totally agree! To my own disappointment I found that (after pulling off my stack) I never performed a "built-in effect".... Be it because here in Germany not everybody is that familiar with Poker (and again I agree, most of the stack-dependent effects are related to Poker combinations, sometimes also Black Jack/Bridge) or be it that I simply prefer to weave in more of my own ideas and presentations than the built-ins allow me to.
The Mati Envelope
A brandnew peek device for the working mentalist! Chance's Token Tarot cards in a scenic piece of mystery..... |
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Dennis Loomis 1943 - 2013 2113 Posts |
As mentioned above, the continued exposure of the 9D on the bottom of the deck can be a give away, especially to magicians. But, there's an easy solution:
First, avoid flashing the card on the bottom of the deck when you are in home position. Just an awareness of how you handle the cards is all that's required. Second, don't habitually keep the deck in home position. In particular, when you return the deck to it's box or case, don't have it in home position. When you initially remove the deck from the case, do flash the face card since it will be a random one. A single cut will bring you "home" when it's necessary, but avoid "going home" if you don't have to. Dennis Loomis
Itinerant Montebank
<BR>http://www.loomismagic.com |
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helder Inner circle Portugal 1064 Posts |
Nice trainer: http://huruey.webs.com/
My version of Eddie fetcher "Be Honest What's it?" it's available at Penguin Magic
Check my Facebook group: Mentalism Secrets Email: heldermagico@gmail.com www.facebook.com/heldermagico |
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AznSAmagic New user Toronto, Canada 93 Posts |
Excellent resource. The options / customization is amazing.
Cerca Trova
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Dick Oslund Inner circle 8357 Posts |
I am not a stack man (I DID buy a DeLand Dollar Deck when I was a teenager!) but my old pal Denny Loomis IS. --Dito: Gene Anderson! If I were going to start stacking, I would cetainly seek their advice.
On a school tour in Montana about 25 years ago, I visited an IBM ring meeting in Great Falls. I can't remember for certain his last name) but a card man from Seattle (I believe) named Eddie ______(McGuire???)was doing some lovely card stuff. After each routine, he was cold decking the locals. He noticed my smile, and realized that I wasn't a "first of May", I was "in". I think he cold decked them about six times! He blew them away. He and I had a good laugh later.Oh! I seem to remember that Eddie told me that he had been in partnership with Stan Payne (STAR magic in the '50s) That may help someone remember his name.
SNEAKY, UNDERHANDED, DEVIOUS,& SURREPTITIOUS ITINERANT MOUNTEBANK
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Atom3339 Inner circle Spokane, WA 3242 Posts |
Old post from Dennis (^), I know. But on technique I use to minimize flashing the 9D, bottom card of Tamariz MD, is to simply cut to the KD, the 26th card, via a breather crimp. Great for starting a perfect Faro also.
TH
Occupy Your Dream |
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