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The Burnaby Kid Inner circle St. John's, Canada 3158 Posts |
Funsway,
It would seem that many people here are incapable of correctly interpreting your thoughts. This appears to be a pattern in many discussions. I think it would be very generous of you to head to this thread that's been created specifically for you, so that you can lay out the terms and definitions that comprise your theories about magic so that there will be a greater understanding in future. http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......rum=27&0
JACK, the Jolly Almanac of Card Knavery, a free card magic resource for beginners.
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funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9982 Posts |
And here I thought that was a satirical joke.
I guess I could take you more seriously when you also open a thread for Whit -- perhaps called "Whit's Classroom," and one for Jonathan called "Applied bio-sophistry" or something.. Based on your previous attacking posts, I find it difficult that you are really interested in understanding anything you do not believe you already know. I will "generously" watch your future posts for signs that you have anything positive to contribute devoid of positioning or putting down another person's ideas or contributions. You are, however, welcome to come to Knoxville any time for personal "face-to-face" discussions where non-verbal clues might overcome deceit. I will create a special guest rooom specifically for you. Please do not bring along the other people you pretend to speak for. The light is always on.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
Well Ken when Whit put up his theory he said he wanted us to attack it, to see if we could find any holes in it, and we tried hard to find any. Its not personal its only business.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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The Burnaby Kid Inner circle St. John's, Canada 3158 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-07-28 18:20, funsway wrote: Au contraire! In all seriousness, I think it would be a great benefit to those of us who don't understand your teachings if you would focus your efforts on developing a definitive and localized set of your theories and ideas, without the distractions of ongoing discussions. In this way, if there's any future misunderstanding of where you're coming from, those of us who don't perfectly understand you (and there are a few, as this thread alone seems to indicate), they can always be referred to your dedicated thread.
JACK, the Jolly Almanac of Card Knavery, a free card magic resource for beginners.
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funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9982 Posts |
You could demonstrate your serious intent to learn by going to any of the several threas I started on htis forum this month and provide cogenat, courtious and insightful responses. No new thread is required.
I must thank you, though. I receive many private requests for information, clarification and even advice from folks interested in my ideas. Many recently ask why a person such as yourself feel a need to attack and challenge an idea rather than ask about it. They realize that the proper response to "I don't understand" is to ask questions or seek clarification. The moment you and others ay, "You seem to say or mean" you state that you are not interested in learning at all. All confison over what I have offered comes from those who rephase what I say and then attack their own delusion. I have offered for you to come to my home and engage in meaningful dialogue rathe than playing some internet game. Why? Becasue when I fist join the Café', Andrew, your posgt were one of the thing I looked forward to -- statement of clarity, proper grammar and substance. It didn't matter that I ofen disagreed with your conclusions as I sought to learn from those with different experiences than my owm. Then about two years ago, your posts took a turn to attacking, dissimulation, crude language and derailing the purpuse of the current thread. Perhaps there has been some personal tragedy in your life or major change in Worldview. Sadly, the result has been that I have lost any respect for what you say. That is why I have said, "Waiting is." As Nate Leipzig said, "I am not an organ-grinder monkey." I do not have a "designated thread" -- and would never post on one manipulated by you. Please show me some of the Andrew of yesteryear in your next posts. If you can't come for a personal visit, we can always chat by phone or Skype. I have no desire to teach (another wrong assumption on your part) -- only to create an environment in which people can learn. Are you serious? We shall see.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
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The Burnaby Kid Inner circle St. John's, Canada 3158 Posts |
Ah well, I gave it a shot.
JACK, the Jolly Almanac of Card Knavery, a free card magic resource for beginners.
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Brad Burt Inner circle 2675 Posts |
"The moment you and others say, "You seem to say or mean" you state that you are not interested in learning at all. All confusion over what I have offered comes from those who rephrase what I say and then attack their own delusion."
In every class on communication, psychology, etc. that I have taken over the years one of the first things taught was, "Look if you are not sure what I am saying, tell me what you think I said so I can either tell you we are in agreement or try again to clarify." I am agog at your position. I can see how, by the way, you may have interpreted Andrew's attempt to start a 'Funsway' thread as his trying to somehow ghettoize you. I know from Private Message conversation that he did not mean it that way at all. But, your statement above obviates any particular value of it. It forthrightly steps outside the activity of debate. What you say is what you say and we either understand your position or we don't. Cool. Clarity. Best,
Brad Burt
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funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9982 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-07-29 15:27, Andrew Musgrave wrote: If I did not think there was some sincerity here I would not be inviting you to my home. I also am effected by post you have made on other theads than this, and readily admit that most of the "out of place attacks" were not yours -- but, you claim to speak for them. Now that I learn that Private Emails have been exchanged, I can only ask why you didn't write to me privately if you had confusion or a problem? Are you truly interested in how my unique experiences with performace magic have led to other conclusions that the general fare? Just ask. But an internet forum is not the place or vehicle.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
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funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9982 Posts |
Some interesting points, Brad -- and I still rspect your views.
In pursuing a BA and two Masters degrees in Speech COmmunication I have never heard such a phrase -- but who know what is being taught today. Regaardless, those thoughts apply to interpersonal communications and formal debate not Interent Exchange. Yes, it is essential to clarify any misunderstanding on terms or concepts BEFORE PROCEEDING. Thsi "ack of understanding is often enhanced by non-verbal cues not available on the Internet Blog. Yes, one approach to clarification is to say something like, "If I understand you correctly, the essential pioint of your argument is ..." That is not what happened here. There was no wait for clarification, and I cannot believe you seriously content that the intent of the "rephrasing" was for clarification. My objection is they these posters attacked their own rephrasing without seeking any clarification. An Internet forum is a poor place to discuss any subject of a philosophical or esoteric theme -- but it also means that SEEKING clarification is even more important. Dozens of folks have used private email as a more effective means of clarification -- then posting on a forum only after they had a clear understanding. I often send PM to posters seeking clarification -- unfortunately often not receiving a reply -- and some so not allow PM's. This is the major reason why I would not accept an invitation like Andrew's. It can't work, is "fraught with peril" -- and very boring if I present three pages of definition before posting a single idea. How much better to sit on the porch sipping something and engaging in discourse that can actually go some where. Lacking that, the sensible alternative is to extract from each post what works for you, ignore the rest, or be inspired to do futher research (including off-list chats). To argue on line is silly at best. I don't post ideas becuae I want agreement -- but a free exchange of many points of view. I post because I have a different point of view based on personal experience. "What you say is what you say and we either understand your position or we don't." Right on! It is not a debate. If you don't understand you either skip it or ask for clarifiaction. Continue the discourse only afetr clarification is reached. That is a principle of effective communication. If you agree there is no debate. The invitation to swing by Knoxville extends to you also. Discourse -- not debate. I have a number of threads posted that illustrate my thinking about magic. It would be great if you replied to some. Understanding comes from looking at all the arguments.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
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Alan Wheeler Inner circle Posting since 2002 with 2038 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-07-26 19:14, Jonathan Townsend wrote: Thank you, Jon! I'm very glad whenever we find some common ground. In the Handbook I use for teaching the students in our technical college here, there is a chapter on building common ground. The editors claim that we need to consider our own assumptions, what we think of as normal, since our audiences will have a variety of expectations regarding authority, directness, persuasive evidence, organization, style, and so on. The editors urge writers to clarify meaning by getting feedback and to avoid making assumptions. This advice can apply by analogy to magic as the logical, emotional, and ethical appeals may enhance the experience of the impossible in various ways depending on the context at the audience and venue level. For example, the logical appeal of hard evidence (which relates most to Whit's dilemma and the heart of the magic experience as far as I understand Maskelyn) has been most demanded of me by Asian audiences. There actually seems to be a higher standard for things like examinability of props and a closer scrutiny and a greater demand for proof of the effect. The American audiences, by contrast, seem more easily satisfied by emotional and ethical appeals, things that may actually make contributions secondary to the impact of strong magic.
The views and comments expressed on this post may be mere speculation and are not necessarily the opinions, values, or beliefs of Alan Wheeler.
A BLENDED PATH Christian Reflections on Tarot Word Crimes Technology and Faith........Bad Religion |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9982 Posts |
Good thoughts, Alan
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
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