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Woland Special user 680 Posts |
Why do you say I am willing to give only one side the benefit of the doubt? It's the actions of the flight & cabin crews that are being challenged here, not the passenger's.
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
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On 2011-10-10 19:50, Chance wrote: See, Chance, normally when I disagree with you, things get a little heated, and you put on your mask of reason and talk about how you're unfairly attacked, and if only people like DannyDoyle or me treated you with civility and respect, you'd respond in kind. So I say to myself, "ok, fair enough," and here I am, on a position about which I disagree with you profoundly, but framing all of my responses civilly and sticking to the topic at hand, and now my "hypocrisy stinks to high heaven." IIRC, the last time you said the H-Word, I cut and pasted several of your own comments and illustrated who the hypocrite was, but since we're being civil now, I won't do that this time. Meanwhile, back at the point, I'm not marginalizing anyone, let alone A BILLION people. The "whole crusader argument" means that things that happened over a thousand years ago are, shall we say charitably, somewhat less relevant to modern security concerns in America than things that have happened over the past few decades. If you want to start a new discussion about who's a greater force for evil in the world today, or historically, we can do that in another thread. But today's point in this thread pertained to the question of who's more likely to hijack an American airplane in 2011.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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Magnus Eisengrim Inner circle Sulla placed heads on 1053 Posts |
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On 2011-10-10 20:27, Woland wrote: I just reread your post where you wanted to bet me a chocolate milkshake that the employees received relevant training. I (mis)read that as you suggesting that they likely had good reasons for removing her based on that training. I see now that there is another reading, and I should have been more charitable in my interpretation. My apologies. Should we ever meet, I'll buy you a milkshake. John
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats |
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Woland Special user 680 Posts |
Thank you, Magnus, for your gracious comment! I would be delighted to have a milkshake with you. If north of the border, perhaps a hot chocolate would be more appropriate, or the adult beverage of your choice. I think you will find that there is much about which we can agree, and some things about which we can agreeably disagree.
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Lets take this seriously. One of the liberal screaming points after 9/11 was that Bush had been told about it in a security briefing. In reality it said something very vague, very non spacific for those not sure what that means. SO they scream to high heaven about it, use it to prove how bad he is at his job and so forth.
I tell you that they had LESS INFORMATION than this cabin crew acted upon. But you liberals scream at Bush for his actions/non actions and here the opposite happens and you scream as well. Seems to me that consistance is needed. Also consider this before all the inevitable screaming name calling and thread deleating starts. This crew has only a VERY small amount of time to make a decision that is for their own life and the life of hundreds of others. It is pretty easy to sit back and assign blame, but if you have ever been in a game for your life where you have little time (heck I don't care how much time you have life and death man.) to deceide you will tend to act on the side of caution. <------------ See the period there? So go ahead sit back in lounge chairs and make any sort of judgements you like, you have no way of knowing. That is the way life is.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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magicfish Inner circle 7004 Posts |
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RS1963 Inner circle 2734 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-10-10 21:34, magicfish wrote: I don't think there is any need for that or do you mean your post? We all seem to be keeping some sort of order in this discussion. Sure there is some you're this or you're that but it could be much worse. |
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Pakar Ilusi Inner circle 5777 Posts |
Need a hero?
Wafa Sultan.
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
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Woland Special user 680 Posts |
Yes, she is heroic, Pakar Ilusi! Thanks for reminding me to keep checking on her work.
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Pakar Ilusi Inner circle 5777 Posts |
Welcome Woland.
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
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Woland Special user 680 Posts |
Quote:
A very compelling argument could be made that since the time of Mohammad Evangelical Christianity and Catholicism (just to name 2) have caused more physical damage and killed more human beings on religious grounds than Islam has. It may be, Chance, that you are taking an overly Euro-centric view of history. Which ideology is responsible for more senseless killing -- Christianity, Islam, or Socialism -- has been much discussed and debated. This kind of historical speculation, weighing and balancing the sufferings of different people in different epochs, and trying to understand whether some ideologies are deadlier than others, should not be used as a substitute for accurately understanding the threats that face us now, as Lobowolf has clearly pointed out, but understanding the historical experience that people even today incorporate into their self-understanding may help us to understand their actions. Oftentimes we forget that total war -- war waged against an entire population -- was almost unknown in Europe before the XXth century, and that most of the wars fought in Europe before then were fought by professional armies whose depradations on civilian populations seem modest when compared with the horrors and destructions of the wars of 1914 and 1940. On the other hand, there have been many huge wars in Asia that we in the West rarely even think about. For example, the Tai Ping Rebellion in China, which was started by a self-proclaimed syncretic messiah who hoped to lead the Chinese people to freedom from the Mancurian dynasty, resulted in 20 million deaths or more, over a decade and a half. But it is the jihadi conquest of India, over a period of about 500 years, that Will & Ariel Durant, in their History of Civilization called "the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex of order and freedom, culture and peace, can at any moment be overthrown by barbarians invading from without or multiplying within." In the words of Koenraad Elst, Quote:
The Muslim conquests, down to the 16th century, were for the Hindus a pure struggle of life and death. Entire cities were burnt down and the populations massacred, with hundreds of thousands killed in every campaign, and similar numbers deported as slaves. Every new invader made (often literally) his hills of Hindus skulls. Thus, the conquest of Afghanistan in the year 1000 was followed by the annihilation of the Hindu population; the region is still called the Hindu Kush, i.e. Hindu slaughter. The Bahmani sultans (1347-1480) in central India made it a rule to kill 100,000 captives in a single day, and many more on other occasions. The conquest of the Vijayanagar empire in 1564 left the capital plus large areas of Karnataka depopulated. And so on. At any rate, I am reasonably sure that the flight attendant and pilot who decided to proceed on their scheduled trip without a passenger whose behavior had worried them, were not motivated by an assessment of which ideology over the course of centuries had been most used by one group of men to murder the greatest number of their fellow men and women. They were motivated by their awareness that ordinary civilian aviation flights have over the past 20 years or been repeatedly targeted, sometimes successfully, sometimes not, by jihadis. At the present time, there is no other comparable threat to a civilian flight inside the United States. |
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critter Inner circle Spokane, WA 2653 Posts |
Just had a quick look at plane hijacking cases over the last 100 years so I know who to single out. So far: watch your back around Catholics, middle aged white guys, and people who work for the CIA. Those people are all incredibly dangerous and evil based upon the isolated examples that I found. If you see anyone in any of the above groups I recommend singing Charlie Daniels songs at them until they run away, awed by your patriotism and fiddlin' skills.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers |
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