|
|
Go to page [Previous] 1~2~3~4~5 | ||||||||||
Dr Spektor Eternal Order Carcanis 10781 Posts |
"They are lean and athirst!!!!"
|
|||||||||
cboscari Regular user 119 Posts |
Not that I am defending the practice, but what about Tarbell? I thought it was odd in his an early lesson on tissue paper magic he states he saw a torn and restored tissue paper effect of Ching Ling Foo and then went home and recreated the effect for himself, which he then proudly states is very close to the method used by Foo, and reveals in his course. I was surprised when I read this. I suppose he could have received permission, but he doesn't actually say he did. Was this kind of thing more common then?
Chris |
|||||||||
Dr Spektor Eternal Order Carcanis 10781 Posts |
“But I consider that the matter of defining what is real — that is a serious topic, even a vital topic. And in there somewhere is the other topic, the definition of the authentic human. Because the bombardment of pseudo- realities begins to produce inauthentic humans very quickly, spurious humans — as fake as the data pressing at them from all sides. My two topics are really one topic; they unite at this point. Fake realities will create fake humans. Or, fake humans will generate fake realities and then sell them to other humans, turning them, eventually, into forgeries of themselves. So we wind up with fake humans inventing fake realities and then peddling them to other fake humans. It is just a very large version of Disneyland. You can have the Pirate Ride or the Lincoln Simulacrum or Mr. Toad’s Wild Ride — you can have all of them, but none is true.”
― Philip K. Dick
"They are lean and athirst!!!!"
|
|||||||||
Crowslide New user 50 Posts |
To those of you who would stop/shut down during a show due to violation of a videoing policy..thank you. The world needs more people like you. Did we as a people lose all sense of boundries respect for the personal space of others when someone put an iphone in our hands? I'm tired of it.. and applaud anyone who stands up for and defines that video free space whenever they can.
|
|||||||||
mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
I've never had to shut down a show because of video taping, but I always (in public establishments) have the venue make an announcement that video taping and/or audio recording is prohibited.
I have had to stop shows on occasion to have a video camera put away and I've had second offenders removed from the premises. Good thoughts, Bob |
|||||||||
george1953 Inner circle Mallorca (Spain) 5943 Posts |
Hi,I work mainly Hotels here in Spain for holidaymakers. Unfortunately with the mobile phone now able to record video, half the time you don't efen know you are being filmed. But stealing material does affect you, I uased to do a comedy stage act and had a piece that used to get howls of laughter every time. Suddenly I started geting no reaction to this ,and wondered why until someone said to me we all knew what was going to happen, it was on tv about a month ago. I can only guess that someone haad seen me do it and copied it. I have since seen the footage and it is word for word my effect, even down to all the bits of buissiness that I used. Sorry to say I don't see how we van stop this happening.
By failing to prepare, we are preparing to fail.
|
|||||||||
Countage Veteran user Charlotte 361 Posts |
A few years ago a few friends of mine went to see Christopher Carter at a local university. It was an outstanding performance. We contacted him and let him know we would be attending his show. We actually met with him at the local Applebees for dinner afterwards. He mentioned that he removed one of his routines because he knew we were there. He was very nice and answered a lot of questions about the business for us.
I think switching or removing important or original material is a much better strategy than ending your show if you see some one video taping your show. Personally I do not mind if someone videos my performance for most of my material is marketed effects or standard classics. |
|||||||||
Michael_MacDonald 1964 - 2016 Washington 2034 Posts |
For me I personally do not mind if someone steals my act....as the type of act I perform changes with each performance. if they want to put in the work to learn what I do then I give them props.
that said I can totally understand why others feel violated as they put so much work into a structured act that soon becomes useless as it is over performed and most often ruined by others. heck even Disneyland says no pics and video during shows and on some of the rides |
|||||||||
Sealegs Inner circle The UK, Portsmouth 2596 Posts |
I think we are going to all be in agreement that wholesale stealing of routine's, scripts, business, presentations and routines is wrong... but merely stating this fairly pointless. Such behaviour has always been a part of the way things are and I'd be surprised if didn't continue to be so... so the question then becomes what action can an offended party take and how effective is that action likely to be?
Well obviously this will depend to some extend on who's doing the stealing, who they are stealing from, and what they do with the stuff they've stolen. But as a general principle I go by some personal experience that I think it is probably relevant, representative and pertinent to most cases at the level of the working, jobbing variety act. Years ago I had a signature piece of mine taken. When I heard of this I was understandably upset. I knew the person concerned (on a 'good acquaintance' basis) so I called them up to ask them about it. The person in question swore to me that they weren't using my idea or my routine. They said they knew that the material in question was mine and said that the person who told me that they were using it was either lying or mistaken. At the time such a mistake seemed more probable than being blatantly lied to by the person in question so I took them at their word. About six months later I was watching the UK's biggest annual prime time TV variety show, The Royal Variety Show. It was being filmed, as usual, at the London Palladium in the presence of The Queen. The person in question, while being watched by millions on TV, closed his 'command performance' spot with my signature piece that he had denied to me that he was using. That's about as severe as it gets. I was, as I said, upset and my course of action was to tell everyone and anyone that would listen, at every available opportunity, what this person had done. After a year of doing this I learned several things: No one cared except me. The only person to look bad from the telling of this story was me. (It came across as a case of sour grapes... because no one cared) When ever I talked about it I could feel myself sounding and becoming a bitter and less pleasant person. Then one day after about a year of this I just decided to let it go. This turned out to be the best course of action for me and although it might be a tough thing to do it is how I recommend to deal with this sort of situation when it occurs. During that year I continued to use this piece in my show (and still do). So having had it performed in front of the biggest TV audience in the UK by someone else, who was well known and who wasn't me... and having my material associated with them for some time... really had no affect on me and my use of my material at all. What's more I was and still am a happier guy for not carrying around that anger and bitterness about it. Of course I was wronged but I still think the right thing for me was to shrug it off and get on with my life. Concern yourself with the things you are in control of not the one's you aren't in control of or can't do anything about. I've since met the person concerned and was happy to converse with them without ever bringing the subject up. (They know I had been mad about it though as I know it got back to them) Another example....On another occasion.... I walked into a venue only to have a resident staff member, who I'd worked with the year before, see me, turn ashen grey and have to sit down as his legs were giving way. I asked him what the problem was and he said, "are you working here tonight?" when I said yes and asked why he'd asked he said, "I've just done about 25 minutes of your act." This was the cause of his distress. He'd been found out and had apparently put me and the venue in a difficult position. It turned out I had actually gone to the wrong venue, there are two very similar venues near to each other and I was performing at the other one, and so the resident entertainer wasn't expecting to see me. He realised he'd been caught out said he'd learned his lesson and promised not to ever do it again. The following year I heard from a friend that this person was once again doing whole sections of my show including some unusual material totally unique to me. (unique that is until he started dong it too) However I'd learned the best way to deal with this from my previous experience and I chose to simply not let it bother me. I have no idea where that guy is now... I've never heard of him since and am pretty sure he's not working anywhere otherwise I would have heard about it on the grapevine. But me, I'm doing fine traveling the world and earning a good living. Now I could have let that bother me but what would that have achieved? Nothing positive as far as I can see. Lastly, I have, on more than one occasion bought material from magicians selling their wares only to find they are, in part, selling my wares! Maybe I should get mad? Maybe, but I prefer to wish these people well and continue having a life that doesn't involve harbouring anger or ill will as in the end the only person that would come out badly from that would be me. Someone else profiting from my ideas... it's not right for sure... but it does me no harm or at worst has so little affect on me that it goes unnoticed. It certainly does me way less harm than worrying about such things would do me. Also consider this... None of us work in a vacuum. There are very few of us, including me, that haven't taken something along the way from others. Maybe not a whole routine, maybe just a premise, or part of an idea, or a tone of performing, or a gesture, or a line. But where does the acceptable stop and the unacceptable start. Generally we know when we see it or do it but it's hard if not impossible to define. But I don't think any one has to worry too much about this as the cream, by and large, tends to rise to the top.... and to mix my metaphors.... and the chaff tends to get blown away on the wind. So when your material filters out into the main stream isn't it simply better to think of it as making a contribution? Maybe not a wilfully given one but once it's done it's done. I think it's better for your well being to simply put a positive spin on it than not.
Neal Austin
"The golden rule is that there are no golden rules." G.B. Shaw |
|||||||||
joesquire New user 89 Posts |
If the original creator is a solid performer with a solid reputation and a good following, what about bringing attention to it?
"Ladies and Gentleman what you're about to witness is an act so amazing it has been imitated by such performers as X and Y, but never duplicated! Tonight, the original and still the best..." Or in an interview, laughingly talk about the crappy rip-off acts. And if he doesn't sound upset, the reporter is going to be inclined to research further and bring it to light. The attention means more tickets bought. Of course, this COULD increase tickets sold by the thief too, but ultimately the audience is probably going to be more outspoken and hard to win over. Long-term the thief will lose out. |
|||||||||
mindshrink Special user Delhi,India 916 Posts |
If a person(yours truly) does a bank-night/blank nite...using Osterlind's method,uses the patter(suitably modified for an Asian audience) from Archer...substituting GOD for SEX...etc....is that original ?
Considering the magi has paid access to both the performances.I know it is legal...but is it original ? Not performed as yet but working on the patter. |
|||||||||
PhiltheBear New user Southampton, UK 72 Posts |
I wonder, in real life, how often a 'complete copy' ever happens. Yes, I'm sure it does but I'd bet it's pretty rare. More likely is the copying of part of an act - or parts of many acts. And, reducing that, at some point you get down to individual effects/tricks/patter which also get copied. Let's be 100% honest here - the vast majority of people in the whole 'Magic' world use stuff they didn't invent. They may have paid for it or they may simply have seen someone do it and worked out the method for doing it. Whatever. It's still copying. I'm certain wholesale rip-off is a pain and should be protected against but where should the line be drawn? There's something I do which I worked out all by myself without ever seeing anyone else do. In fact I didn't know it had been done. Turns out that it's a fairly major part of someone else's set and probably was before I did it. Do I stop using it? Do I credit Mr X? (If so, what am I supposed to do - stop in the middle of a performance and say Mr X also does this but I don't know if he uses the same method that I do?) My decision was to carry on with it. The chances of our ever playing to the same audience is, in fact, miniscule.
But before I get roundly castigated, please hold up your hand and swear that you have never, ever, used something in your act that originated somewhere else.
--
PhiltheBear Unusualist |
|||||||||
Sealegs Inner circle The UK, Portsmouth 2596 Posts |
This is how one British comedian masterfully deals with the subject matter discussed in this thread.
Neal Austin
"The golden rule is that there are no golden rules." G.B. Shaw |
|||||||||
Paul Shirley Inner circle Melbourne, Australia 1206 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-03-25 00:05, Sealegs wrote: :) Very good. Thanks for the laugh! |
|||||||||
parmenion Inner circle Switzerland/Zürich 3988 Posts |
Yes! very good!
Philthebear do you feel in some way guilty ? lol
“I love talking about nothing. It is the only thing I know anything about.”
<BR>Oscar Wilde experimentaliste <br> <BR>Artist pickpocket Professional <BR> <BR>Looking for the best book test in French? send me a PM! |
|||||||||
joesquire New user 89 Posts |
@mindshrink, if you've paid for it you can perform it. You've paid for the presentation and you've paid for the method.
No, it's not "original" but no one can hold you to account for that, both originators got paid |
|||||||||
Fred Darevil Elite user 446 Posts |
"Ladies and gentlemen I must confess that there's one thing I've never been able to predict : the length of my show ! So, please don't blame me if it stops in the next 5 minutes. I'm sure you approve collective responsability and punishment !"
|
|||||||||
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » Stolen material and it's affect on career (0 Likes) | ||||||||||
Go to page [Previous] 1~2~3~4~5 |
[ Top of Page ] |
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2024 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved. This page was created in 0.05 seconds requiring 5 database queries. |
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic. > Privacy Statement < |