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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Nothing up my sleeve... » » Muscle Pass published by T Nelson Downs in 1900? (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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bdekolta
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Several things to add here. First Curtis analysis seems plausible and in fitting with what we know about Down's.

Next Richard Hatch once shared with me a reference to Charles Bertram that sounded very much like a Muscle Pass. This would predate Down's and Buckley. The reference came from some notes of a person who studied under Bertram. Richard was selling a small booklet that contained the reference. Unfortunately I don't recall the title.

After Buckley published the move it was not widely used. My understand of the modern history of the move is that Chuck Smith learned the move from Buckley's book then developed a few applications which he showed to John Cornelius. John then developed the "Coin that Falls Up" and the craze continues to this day.

Hope that is helpful.

Dan
Calvin Tong
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Hi Dan,

thank you for pointing me in the right direction. I contacted Richard and he was quite helpful. The reference comes from the Book "Charles Bertram, The Court Conjurer, page 96." I obtained a copy myself and read through it as well. Here is the email message Richard Hatch sent me:

It is mentioned by Charles Bertram's pupil, Major Lionel Branson. The following passage by Branson is cited in Dr. Edwin Dawes book about Charles Bertram, (Charles Bertram, The Court Conjurer), on page 96: "Bertram practiced continually with cards and, "He even made me do the single-handed pass ninety times a minute. To show how much he practiced, the muscle of his right hand was so developed that by contracting it I have seen him project a coin some three feet or more into the air." Some of the modern generation of conjurers seem to believe that this coin-springing accomplishment, now known as The Muscle Pass, is a relatively recent innovation."
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Curtis Kam
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Wow, thanks, I'm embarrassed to say I've never talked to Dick about that. Turns out you can learn something from the Internet. As long as you talk to someone who read a book.
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Hare
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T. Nelson Downs lived in an era very different from us today. Magician's secrets were published in much less detail in general. There was no wide spread interaction between conjurors like there is today. No instant emails, no video, no internet...almost no nothing compared to today. Secrets were very often taken to the grave, and a book was really your only recourse to publishing secrets.

In my opinion, most of the "new inventions" we think we have come up with as individual coin jugglars are most likely not new. At best we are the first to use the idea in a new context, and perhhaps the first to mention it in print in this fashion.

Everyone agrees Downs was a genius for experimentation. He spent his whole life adjusting the classic palm with coins and taking it in new directions- the area of the palm/edge palm/third finger rest position is the center of all of his whole World.

We tend to forget that he invented, (publishing wise), and "tossed off" all manner of little things we consider very serious contributions to the art today- because he is long gone, and precious little exists in the way of film footage for us to look at him.

He handled what we refer to today as the Tenkai Pinch with the same casual attitude as his probable use of the Muscle Pass. He mentions it is passing as a way of showing a backpalmed coin "gone" by spreading the fingers as one moves the coin from a first/second finger pinch in the rear to a third/fourth finger pinch as you open the unused fingers.

Sure, it's a waste of all the use of this convincing hold...and it is as tersely described as the proposed muscle pass use...but my point is that he describes what everyone considers a much more modern hold as if it is a passing hold of little interest except for this one use.

He does exactly the same thing with the mechanics of the muscle pass.

He does exactly the same thing with what some think of as Roth's versatile tool, the coin rattle. He uses it as if it can be used only for one trick. This, of course, was not invented by Roth- Roth's form of this device is exactly Down's design.

The difference is that Roth use it for a wide variety of effects, where Down's treats it as if it were just a throwaway concept.

All of the various "edge work"- the holds of larger coins forward of the horizontal thumb palm towards the fingertips, which can be shown from the "front" to be empty to the audience- all of them owe something to Downs, who first proved this concept viable to large audiences.

The big difference in what Down's did, and what is used today is a matter of refinement, and a switch from the use of the stage in Down's day to a more intimate audience today.

There is more.

Sylvester's fantastic and innovative pitch, which uses the pschological cover of a visible coin being handled whilst the pitching part is being employed can be traced back to the same psychology of cover being employed in Down's masterpiece, his little mini-miser's dream effect, The Eureka Pass.

Whilst Down's is passing his single handed produced coins to his other paw, he uses precisely this same psychology to perloin the next metal disc to produce right at the point of handing off his coin- exactly the same cover which makes Sylvester's pitch so very wondrous. There is not pitch with Downs, it's a behind the hand transfer...but the COVER psychology is the same, and is a work of sublime genius.

Because of the titantic amount of contributive impact Down's has passed along to us, I am inclined to think it is most likely that this inventive but oh-so concise description was very probably indeed using the muscle pass to shoot that coin in the opposite direction of is hand movement, from his palm, into his vest.

I mean, that is exactly what the text is saying he is doing SHOOTING the coin specifically from the CLASSIC PALM position into his vest while moving the opposite direction, right? And, after all- and who better to first try it?

Down's proven tendency to describe lightly, and use once what later turn into major and important coin innovations doesn't eliminate his initial discovery and publication of the concept, in my opinion.

I think we need to judge his contributions to the art in the context of HIS DAY, and not by the standards of proof of invention in today's much less close to the vest and internet enlightened-era.

All my opinions, of course.
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Atom3339
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Excellent, Hare. Keeping everything in perspective. Love seeing the word: purloin. Ahhhh!

My questions for this discussion would be, Who here is using the Muscle Pass?, and, How are you using it? As a visual effect? Sleight? Or both?
TH

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Calvin Tong
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Hare,
very nice. I can appreciate your perspective and agree with the fact that Down's was quite general with his terminology on specific movements. I would also agree with you that his description of "No. 3" is a MP. (IMO). Thank you for bringing this back full circle to the original reason for this discussion.

Curtis, such sarcasm from a man of the law. :o)
However, you are correct. Its all about the books. In this case, we can thank the internet for being a vehicle for communications (ie...putting people in touch with others who can provide direction on which book to investigate next). ;o)
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bdekolta
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Calvin ~ that is the reference I was referring to. It was an interesting little booklet. Don't recall why I didn't pick it up at the time.

Curtis ~ Dick had brought the item to my attention since I have long featured a routine using the muscle pass. He knew it would be of interest to me.

Hare ~ some nice analysis. Thank you for sharing.

Many people use a muscle pass but few do it in a way that looks truly magical. For example John Cornelius would demonstrate his "Coin that Falls Up" both hands were dead still and it was a beautiful thing to see. I've only met a few who do it that way. Even when used furtively there is often a large tell as the hand contracts.

As to who uses the move lots of people have used it and thought about it. Chuck Smith has shown me a good dozen uses he came up with. I use it in just about every close up show I do as part of my closing routine.

Hope that is helpful.

~ Dan Strange
Calvin Tong
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Dan, thanks again for pointing me in the right direction.

You are correct in that many magicians use the muscle pass but few do it in a way that looks magical. The "get ready" and the "violent squeeze" really takes away from it.

I do feel it is a thing of beauty when performed with a high level of skill.

Personally, I prefer using it as a hidden technique to transfer the coin or to go south with it (similar to the way Down's described it in MCM).
Cal Tong
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Jonathan Townsend
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Calvin,

I'm not sure it makes sense to put the credit for the Muscle Pass with Downs. Things that make sense and work get propagated quickly around magicians and there would be much mention of the approach, its limitations, various improvements etc in the literature once it was known. It's like Malini's vesting - mentioned once in the Vernon book then ... nothing.

I suggest taking the search backwards from Buckley's book for precedents and look at the literature of the time for any clues to its use and teaching elsewhere.

There are some stories about Downs and his claims that lead me to be cautious about giving him "credit" for a working method on things. I'd like to give him the credit as well but unlike the dime and penney gaffus, it's a tough call this time, at least for me and for now.

Jon
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Hare
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Quote:
On 2012-03-12 17:01, Jonathan Townsend wrote:
Calvin,

I'm not sure it makes sense to put the credit for the Muscle Pass with Downs. Things that make sense and work get propagated quickly around magicians and there would be much mention of the approach, its limitations, various improvements etc in the literature once it was known. It's like Malini's vesting - mentioned once in the Vernon book then ... nothing.

I suggest taking the search backwards from Buckley's book for precedents and look at the literature of the time for any clues to its use and teaching elsewhere.

There are some stories about Downs and his claims that lead me to be cautious about giving him "credit" for a working method on things. I'd like to give him the credit as well but unlike the dime and penney gaffus, it's a tough call this time, at least for me and for now.

Jon


Using your logic here, would you also say he did not invent the coin rattle? He rather clearly describes exactly the same device so popular today- yet, magicians of his time rather passed on making it popular at the time he devised it. It wasn't until much later it became a rather common accessory used by many.

I think a much stronger explanation for magicians passing on pursuing some of his creations was that the man was in many ways well ahead of his time, as far as coin magic goes. It took Dave Roth's reintroduction of the device in more a more modern era to make this frankly wonderful device commonplace- yet there it sits, as plain as day, in his book from long ago.
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Jonathan Townsend
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There are significant distinctions between a clearly drawn illustration with acompanying text for the coin rattle and a vaguely worded description of a thing which it seems nobody at that time saw used, read then as you read it now, or applied to their work which later saw print. There's a thing historians watch out for where you read into things using modern eyes.

Again, I'd like to give him the credit - just not sure on this one due to its lack of context in our literature. Surely all of his peers were not fussing over backpalming coins at the time. Smile

Just Occam's Razor here - not the mark of L'homme Masque or anything of that kind. Heck, you saw how I gave him credits where I could.

How about we settle (for now) that you feel the credit should go there and if any new data comes up to support your interpretation we can both applaud the guy?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Lawrens Godon
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Quote:
On Feb 15, 2012, Calvin Tong wrote:The reference comes from the Book "Charles Bertram, The Court Conjurer, page 96." I obtained a copy myself and read through it as well. Here is the email message Richard Hatch sent me:

It is mentioned by Charles Bertram's pupil, Major Lionel Branson. The following passage by Branson is cited in Dr. Edwin Dawes book about Charles Bertram, (Charles Bertram, The Court Conjurer), on page 96: "Bertram practiced continually with cards and, "He even made me do the single-handed pass ninety times a minute. To show how much he practiced, the muscle of his right hand was so developed that by contracting it I have seen him project a coin some three feet or more into the air." Some of the modern generation of conjurers seem to believe that this coin-springing accomplishment, now known as The Muscle Pass, is a relatively recent innovation."


Hi, what is the date of publication of this booklet ?
Thank you
bdekolta
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The gentleman in the article is asserting that he saw this in 1889. His published account of the move came out in 1942. He had taken lessons from Bertram when he was young.

Richard Hatch had originally shown me the description in a small pamphlet that contained Branson's recollections of the lessons he took from Bertram. Branson died in 1946.

Hope that helps.

~ Dan
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