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Pop Haydn Inner circle Los Angeles 3691 Posts |
It is better than nothing. I believe in single-payer, but it is probably too great a disruption at the present time. I think we will eventually move toward it because it is a more sensible plan, and has been proved to work.
I don't really see any alternatives. It will be something like Romneycare, or it will be some kind of single payer like most of the civilized world. |
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Woland Special user 680 Posts |
Quote:
I believe in single-payer, but it is probably too great a disruption at the present time. Should that comment go in one of the faith-based threads? |
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Pop Haydn Inner circle Los Angeles 3691 Posts |
I don't see why. I think the single-payer is the most effective solution, but to redo the law now would be very disruptive to the health care system. The new law is just beginning to come online. It may not be the best option, but it is an improvement, and changing course now would be difficult and expensive.
I think we are stuck with this Republican healthcare plan, at least for the time being. |
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rockwall Special user 762 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-07-14 00:38, Pop Haydn wrote: This is a pretty funny comment Pop considering that not one Republican voted for Obamacare. So, if he was rope-a-doping anyone, it was his own party. If the democrats wanted single payer, they could have gotten it passed with the majorities they had just as they did Obamacare. |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
Of course not a single Republican voted for it. They marched in lockstep against it THE MOMENT that Obama endorsed the idea. It wasn't the plan, but Obama, who they were committed to voting against in order to stick to their stated number one goal of insuring that he would be a one-term president.
Will you not even concede the FACT that it was the conservative think tanks and the Republican party that came up with the mandate idea and the basic structure of the legislation? But I agree with you that the Democrats should have stuck with single payer and voted that through. The reason they didn't, though, was that they mistakenly believed that at least some Republicans would sign on to what was clearly a compromise made in the spirit of bi-partisanship. In that regard, the Democrats and the President were naive- they mistakenly assumed the other side was acting in good faith. They weren't. |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
It seems to me, that if have security that not necessary, that is based on lies and propaganda, then you have a police state.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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rockwall Special user 762 Posts |
Well, I won't exactly concede the FACT? you try and make that it was the conservative think tanks, (plural) and the Republican party that came up with the mandate idea. I know of A think tank, singular, not plural, that came up with idea. And I know of 'some' Republicans that supported the idea as an alternative to single payer. It was never a part of the Republican platform and was not supported by the majority of Republicans or conservatives. Can you at least concede the FACT that it doesn't matter if it was Obama, Bush, Clinton, or McCain, that national universal healthcare would have been strongly opposed by most Republicans?
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
Yes. I will concede that. I will also stand corrected that it was a conservative think tank (singular) that came up with the idea in the first place.
But, sadly, the party of Theodore Roosevelt and Dwight Eisenhower is no more. Even Richard Nixon would be too far to the left for today's Republicans. Even Reagan would probably have a hard time getting elected today given his stance on deficits and federal spending. |
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts |
Rockwall, what do you think about the original post?
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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rockwall Special user 762 Posts |
Oh, look at you, trying to get us back on topic!
hmmm. I don't have a strong opinion either way. While I am concerned about privacy issues, I wouldn't say that this is what would definitively put us into a police state. I guess we would need to define what we think a police state is as your definition would probably differ to some degree than mine. While the numbers sound large, it's a big country. Are these justified requests? Are the police using these records to go fishing? Is the information they collect admissible in court? I'm not surprised by the rapid increase because it is probably something more and more agencies are becoming aware of as a means of gathering evidence as the technology is 'relatively' new. Certainly the ability to track someone by their phone and where they've been. |
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rockwall Special user 762 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-07-15 22:43, mastermindreader wrote: I find it quite funny when those on the left pine for the days of the 'good' republican party and then make the laughable statement that even Reagan would have a hard time getting elected today. It's like, sure, Bush, McCain, Romney are all sooooo much farther right than Reagan ever was! |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
Wow Rockwall. I agree with you on that! I'm not so sure either.
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Zombie Magic Inner circle I went out for a beer and now have 8733 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-07-14 00:38, Pop Haydn wrote: Whit, I think the election will be fun/interesting to watch, but I think we learned from our President, William Jefferson Clinton in the '92 election, that "it's the economy Stupid" ( a variation of James Carville's internal campaign mantra ). In dire times, people will vote with their wallets ( 1980 election ). If they feel financially worse off than 4 years ago, they'll vote a change. Those that weren't doing well 4 years, 8 years, 12 years ago, but now have healthcare, will stay the course. All the rhetoric on the airwaves this summer, all the polls mean nothing. Who passed the first mandated healthcare law as Governor, who passed it as President, who ran what company, who went to what church, will just be chatter to make the heat bearable. And of course the Presidential debates will be a hoot. A good old fashioned sideshow for the folks. At the end of the summer, based on the unemployment numbers, we'll know who will be our President after November 6th. |
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Woland Special user 680 Posts |
I would say this is not yet a "police state" but the structures are being put in place. Here is a list of some of the President's recent executive orders:
Quote:
• EO 10990 allows the Government to take over all modes of transportation and control of highways and seaports. All that's needed is the justification to implement them. Like the "State of Emergency" Harry S. Truman ordered in 1950. |
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts |
Woland, Interesting list, although one could now add the power to assassinate any US citizen anywhere without any judicial oversight under complete protection of executive secrecy.
Anyway, would you still feel the same way if the other party were in power? Would you be as vocal? Serious question.
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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Woland Special user 680 Posts |
Hi landmark, I agree with your addition. Yes, I would be as vocal if the "other party" held the reins. (I don't think posting here is really being "very vocal," though, do you?
If you read about Proclamation 2914, you may be surprised at how long some of President Truman's "emergency" measures remained in force. I think some of them lasted until President Bush (43!) rescinded them. |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
I expect it will go a lot better than the Munich.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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Woland Special user 680 Posts |
Same problem, though, no?
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