Discuss......

I think it depends how you look at it. I know many people compare wrestling and boxing, with the whole boxing is real and wrestling is fake. Are you suggesting magic is real and more like Boxing, and escape acts are not real so it is more like professional wrestling. Do you mean the WWF type wrestling with the made up names and funny costumes or do you mean the high school / olympic type of wrestling. Because the latter type definitely requires a lot of skill, strength and training. Although a lot of effort does go into the other type of wrestling (you don't get to that size overnight) and the scripting and acting do require a bit of knowledge and effort.
But it is funny how you worded it because it makes it sound like people know/believe magic is real, and perhaps escape acts aren't. In my mind, I would think the complete opposite. Pretty much everyone knows that magic isn't "real" but is super enteratining and amazing (pro wrestling) but escape acts can be and some are, pure skill, strength and danger (boxing). I love that you brought this topic up though because it really made me think for a bit about the question you posed. How do you see it Ros? Also, what I said about pro wrestling being entertaining and amazing, I personally do not see it that way, but I know others do.

I think I understand where he is coming from - and given some recent activity on this board, there are some unfortunate similarities .

However, I'd like to suggest that if we cared to put in the work, escape artists don't have to be pigeon-holed.
I'd like to think EA's could be BOTH the professional wrestlers AND the ballet dancers of the magical arts world. And in a perfect world, we would have the control to be which ever we wanted as appropriate to the situation, with the ability to play whichever role suited at the time.
To far out...?

AAArrghh - can't edit post after 30 mins, didn't know that!

After re-reading, I think I should clarify - I understand where Stan Allen is coming from.

The post above could possibly be interpreted to imply that I was comparing Roslyn to a wrestler. This is absolutely NOT the case.

Sorry, carry on ...

Ros and wrestlers? Oooo, that's a slam!

I think it's best to transcend labels and avoid pigeon holes. They're very constrictive, pigeon holes.

I thought this was an interesting comparison. I don't really have any opinions on it as such. But it did make me think. Wondered what you guys drew from it.

Even the ones for fat birds!

Darn it I just sent my bank details off to a guy on eBay who says what with £2000 I can look like that overnight..... I'll let you know if you are wrong.

Mr Hawk ......

I want to see these ballet dancer wrestlers you talk of ..... That sounds good!!!

Dave, you not seen my new show?

Ballet dancing wrestlers from hell. I perform the nut cracker in a SJ, then body slam everyone else on stage.

It's elegant violence.

That's just tu tu!

Lee Jacobs pointed out that escape presentations, like the challenge rope escape, give the audience a "battle to watch," much like a wrestling match.
Also, some have done tie-ins (no pun intended) with wrestling events, such as Bill Shirk.
I, myself, was set up to do such a wrestling tie-in, but it never panned out.

Hmmm, I kind of resent the comparison, especially since I used to be in Pro-Wrestling. (I was a referee)

While I can see some comparisons, the reason I resent the comment is that pro-wrestlers fake it to be entertaining. There are some EA's who are all fake, but many of use try to stay away from gimmicks and simply put on a show featuring a skill set. Also, If we do our job right, people don't walk away saying "well that was interesting, too bad it is all fake" I have heard that more than once after a wrestling show. NEVER heard anything like that after an escape show.

The comparison is valid, when the performers convince the audience of their particular realities.

Cliff, you're showing your stripes!

I've never had anyone call me out saying it is fake. I know some people (layman) know about tricks used, especially in straitjackets, but with ropes and chains, I let them inspect everything then tie me up, however they want, as many knots as they want as tight as they want. Never have I had someone say, it must be a trick. I'd like to think that most people walk away at least slightly amazed...and with a smile because they just had fun also gettting to witness something like that live. ***, After all this talk, I want to go perform right now...

I left out the main point of that posting which was, Cliff, I agree with you 100%

I'm of the opinion that way too many escapologists worry about this point; less from a perspective on performing for laymen, as much as for trying to impress each other.
A GOOD performer conveys the impression of reality whether using real restraints or gaffed apparatus; the audience doesn't know the difference. Houdini himself used both the "legit and illegit" to his advantage, juggling methods to keep the public amazed, and made himself a legend.
Our job is NOT to vainly strut for other escapologists, but to ENTERTAIN the public and weave a 'miraculous' image.
I don't believe in turning my nose up at any tools that might help to reach those goals.