I was just telling you what I can do to see if the sleights by DAortiz would be suitable for me... I never said I would do that at a card table, probably turnover pass...

Well, in all honesty then please grab Jason's England stuff and read my original post. You will not appreciate Ortiz if you don't have those fundamentals down and second nature. Also turnover pass wouldn't work either. Exposing too many cards and wouldn't fly.

The young guy says "...I can bottom deal, nearly invisibly pass..." and talks about Card Cheating.

I simply meant that his pass is far from being invisible. Besides, even if for enterntainment only, it won't hurt to be as close as possible to true and actual material, which his jiggle pass is not.

Now, he's free to delude himself.

There's no need to call me names for that. Looks like there is a cool atmosphere in this place...

Mate, that isn't the issue. Obviously the guy is new here. There isn't any point in just saying it is crap, give him constructive criticism. It isn't about delusion, it is about saying in a manner that it isn't great but here is what you need to do to get better,

I don't clearly see where or when he said it was crap.

13 years old or 25 years old, it makes no difference. Practice, practice and practice if you wanna be good !

Perhaps you are going blind.

Fair enough AMcD, I guess I was defending the innocence of the guy as he is 13. I woul hate for someone to be discouraged from learning this art because they had one bad post. I'm sorry if I sai anything out of step to Giuseppe, I just was concerned that someone that wanted to do a gambling demo might be diswaded from learning it!

@magicman491:

I started at 13 also and I used an Aviator Bridge Sized Deck of cards to master my moves. Aviator Bridge Size was the standard magician deck during that era. My suggestion is forget all the esoteric fancy stuff, you are not ready for that, it will send you in the wrong direction and it hinder you progress. You want solid basic stuff to start with. The first book I learned from was The Expert at the Card Table. Even though it is primarily a magician’s book, it does have a myriad of gambling type moves. I had just about all of the moves in the gambling section mastered by 14. Although gamblers don’t use the material in that book, it is a good basic grounding and since you are looking to do demos, it is good to know about the things Erdnase disclosed.

The next book would be Card Mastery by MacDougall which also has Expert included. If you can master most of what is in both books, you will be a monster. I have mastered just about everything you can think of when it comes to moves and that is the approach I took and the approach I would take if starting out again.

Personally I never really bothered with other people’s opinions. The three way mirror I practiced in front of told me everything I needed to know. Opinions are based upon the knowledge of the people giving the opinion. As they say, opinions are like a—holes, everyone has one.

Hopefully this is helpful and good luck on your journey.

Apologies, I was being an ass.

I just felt that you might have been doing more harm than good in your initial critique. No one's saying that he shouldn't try to perfect his moves, whether they're intended for gambling, or for entertainment purposes. In either case, you didn't offer him any helpful advice -- so what was the point of your initial response?

Well ok, if we're going to get picky, then maybe so-called "brutal honesty" is (to an extent) "helpful". But, I don't think that your original post is even worthy of being called "brutally honest". For a start, it lacks a mutual context. In other words, the context in which you were -- somewhat crudely-- critiquing, is completely irrelevent to OP's Jiggle Pass video. Also, the guy's 13. I'm happy (just as AMcD seems to be) in the knowledge that he's doing this instead of some other hobby.

Now, maybe some of you don't care for the "softly softly" approach, but some people need it. Naturally, a lot of the younger guys fall into this category. Criticism is not as usefull as constructive criticism.

To the OP:

I started learning sleight of hand with cards at the age of 11. I don't think that I could do any kind of Pass, let alone a bottom deal at age 13. Keep working at it and don't let people get you down. If you do, you'll hit your late teens, realise that you'd like to start messing around with cards again and say: "boy I wish that I'd stuck at it when I was 13!"

If you don't feel comfortable sharing your Bottom Deal in public, then send it to me or Bobby privately and we'll give you some friendly pointers. I'm by no means an expert, but I've seen worse false deals than mine floating about.

Zac

PS - Don't use terms like "invisible"... there's rarely such a thing. .

Oh, and pay attention to Cagliostro's posts.