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PCoreyB Regular user 139 Posts |
I got an email from a pastor friend of mine. He's not a magician but wants to do a special lesson for his youth group. This is what he sent me:
---------------------------------------- I was thinking if there is some kind of "Illusion" for and idea for an illustration I was thinking about. It incorporates a vase that gets broken into pieces (symbolizing when we mess up). We ask God to fix it. But God says, "Why should I, you broke it." We continue to ask Him for help. God Then says he could fix it but we would not learn from it. But what He will do is help you put it back together. Then, with His help, we put it back together but all the cracks are still visible. Then (here is the tricky part) I representing Jesus, say, "Now that you have put it back together I will make it new. I take my hands my hands and move along the sides of the vase and remove all the cracks and making it new. Signifying His healing and making all things new. ------------------------------------------ I know that it won't be exactly like he is envisioning but perhaps some alternative that conveys the same message. I think the key is the two phases ie putting the pieces back together ourselves vs God doing it right. Thanks for any input! |
tbaer Inner circle Pennsylvania 2003 Posts |
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Ed_Millis Inner circle Yuma, AZ 2292 Posts |
Have you presented the pastor's whole concept? Does God really require me to get some stuff together before He will heal me?
I'm thinking that would be good to illustrate the difference between doing it myself and letting God do it. I jst want Him to "help" a bit -- just a bit, mind you, nothing too deep or personal. And I do -- and then try to read the paper! In frustration at my own attempts, I give Him all the pieces. I haven't done anything like "putting them together" - unless you count scraping it all into one pile! Then He breathes His breath of Life, the Wind of the Spirit of Life, and that's when the miracle happens! Ed |
Vlad_77 Inner circle The Netherlands 5829 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-11-05 11:39, PCoreyB wrote: Please understand that the following question stems from my desire to possibly give you a few presentational ideas and NOT a doctrinal question per se? I don't post in this section often but I AM a Christian. Why are God and Jesus treated as separate entities since Jesus IS God? What you could do is work into your routine the fact that God became Incarnate as Jesus and understands our problems, and that while He is always with us, like a good parent, He also expects us to be responsible for our own choices. Unless you are a Oneness Pentecostal - a sect that rejects the Holy Trinity - you need to be careful not to tread potentially troubled waters by seeming to make God the Father and Jesus Christ two separate entities. I do like the idea of the vase however. Speaking from a magical point of view, there is a nice aesthetic about it that eschews the usual awful props associated with stage magic for kids. The other - perhaps best - tip I can give you is to pray!! Ask God and listen very closely and you will get your answer. He is and ever shall be with us, Best, Vlad |
PCoreyB Regular user 139 Posts |
I know my friend believes in the Trinity and is not a "oneness" person. His message, perhaps being unfinished, does sound a little funny. I'll speak to him about that. Thanks Vlad for the input.
I thought about the T&R paper too. He's really set on using the vase. Also his magic skills are at a beginner level...he's a pastor that does a bit of magic, not a magician per se. My thoughts at this point are, what can he use to switch a cracked vase for a whole vase? The vase doesn't need to be big, maybe 6 inches tall. Is there some kind of switching apparatus along the lines of a square circle, or mirror tube that might work? |
Ed_Millis Inner circle Yuma, AZ 2292 Posts |
Maybe put the reassembled vase up on a box - proudly displaying "my best efforts". But God says it's like filthy rags - so you pull a scarf over it. And there's the switch.
But when we humble ourselves according to His word -- open a Bible, then close it, clipping the "dirty rag" in between the pages, and whisk away the cloth -- we are restored. Ed |
Donald Dunphy Inner circle Victoria, BC, Canada 7563 Posts |
Years ago, I saw someone who was doing an object lesson about the idea of broken and restored. The person put a light bulb in a small paper bag, and broke it in the bag. You could clearly hear it.
Then he shook it and it broke further while he talked about the idea of mankind trying to fix their problem of sin on their own. At the end he displayed another light bulb that was not broken, to represent the restoration of the relationship beween God and Man. Yes, a person could pull the "magically" restored bulb from the bag, but they don't have to. - Donald P.S. If your friend is still focused on the idea of changing one vase for another, two possible methods are to use a dove tray or a tear-apart (or take apart) dove vanish.
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
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jkvand Special user Johnstown, PA 658 Posts |
Another option might be a C & R rope routine. Tying the knots to hold the pieces of rope together could represent our efforts, which still fall short of complete restoration, evidenced by the knots. "Magical" gesture, and voila! The knots are gone, the rope is back in one complete piece, fully restored! That may accomplish the lesson he is trying to convey.
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Russo Inner circle So.California / Centl.Florida / retired Florida 1165 Posts |
There is an HUMPTY DUMPTY effect where you show H / D on the wall - he falls apart -you put him in a (flat) house -blah blah - / and bring him out whole again - possible to work out - if your good at wood work you could make a person that falls apart and do the same routine - possible the house could be made to look like a Bible. an IDEA Ralph
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Mike Maturen Inner circle Michigan's Beautiful Sunrise Side 2726 Posts |
I agree with Vlad regarding being careful about making God and Jesus two separate entities. It is a fine line to walk because the ACTUAL teaching on the Trinity is that the three persons of the Holy Trinity are three SEPARATE persons, but ONE IN BEING. It is a very difficult concept for most people to understand, and there is no really good human or physical correlation to explain it...all of them fall short.
But, I don't think most spectators would pick it apart the way a theological geek like me would!
Mike Maturen
World of Wonder Entertainment The Magic and Mayhem of Mike Maturen 989-335-1661 mikematuren@gmail.com AUTHOR OF "A NEW DAWN--Weekly Wisdom From Everyday Life" member: International Magician's Society |
Dougini Inner circle The Beautiful State Of Maine 7130 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-11-06 16:57, Donald Dunphy wrote: Great idea, Donald! I was thinking a smaller version of "Where Did The Duck Go?" That's exactly how ya could do it! Brilliant! Doug |
Stephon Johnson Special user Razorback Country 544 Posts |
IF I were to construct a lesson around this subject, I would not center on messing up and God restoring us after He helps us repair things.
Rather, we should call "messing up" what it is...SIN. Even as Christians, we need God's help with that battle throughout life, so I would make it a 1John 1:9 theme "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." For this I would use the "Knots Off" Silk effect. Showing how we as Christians can try to "quick fix" our sins (knots) using man's wisdom instead of God's wisdom. Man seeks his own comfort and pleasure (get verses from Proverbs etc), which involves whatever gets rid of the knots quickly and painlessly; not realizing that God's way through confession, repentance and humbling ourselves to follow God's wisdom and simply "untie" the problems our sin can create - man's best efforts leaves us spiritually and sometimes physically injured and our relationship with God strained (silk with holes in it). I would then illustrate that through obeying God's Word by confessing and repenting, that His forgiveness and cleansing will "restore" our spirit and reconcile us to Himself; as I restore the silk fully in some way (drop silk and removed knots into a change bag, phanto tube, mirror glass or your favorite change device). Great verses besides 1John 1:9 would be verses that illustrate God's Wisdom vs Man's Wisdom from Proverbs or 1Cor 30:2 "Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men."
WHAT IF you wake up tomorrow with ONLY the things that you THANK GOD for today?
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Vlad_77 Inner circle The Netherlands 5829 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-02-23 03:07, Stephon Johnson wrote: REALLY cool Stephon! It teaches a most important lesson and avoids the murky waters of dealing with a concept like The Holy Trinity which as believers it is best that we should believe it as opposed to rattionalizing it. Your idea flows nicely both in terms of message and from a purely magical standpoint, the routining seems tight. +In Christ, Vlad |
Stephon Johnson Special user Razorback Country 544 Posts |
Thanks Vlad, you are very kind.
WHAT IF you wake up tomorrow with ONLY the things that you THANK GOD for today?
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bkmeyer Regular user Greenville, SC 118 Posts |
I have used Clippo for similar illustrations. The angled cuts can represent self redemptive human efforts with the final straight cut illustrating the work of Christ that truly reconciles and/or restores. There really are so many ways to use Clippo.
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Kanawati Veteran user Australia 301 Posts |
Maybe an egg can be used instead of a vase? It could be visually cracked and then completely crushed under a handkerchief using a similar technique to the vanishing bandana.
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Rindfleisch Special user New Jersey 502 Posts |
It's nice to see we have some calvinist here ;-)
-Joe
check me out on facebook #MAGICTOTD
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Kanawati Veteran user Australia 301 Posts |
I also remember seeing a t&r card effect where you tear the card into four pieces, restore it (maybe one piece at a time??) and then you get rid of the creases in the card. I'm not strong with cards but I'm sure Vlad can tell you the name of this version.
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Stephon Johnson Special user Razorback Country 544 Posts |
At Rindfleisch: Maybe do torn and restored TULIP? Hehe
WHAT IF you wake up tomorrow with ONLY the things that you THANK GOD for today?
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