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magicbymccauley Special user 830 Posts |
Its time we sat down and had a little chat. Get your cup of tea and biscuts, because this is going to take the form of a story, and it's going to be a little long. If you don't like reading long things, skip to the last paragraphs.
When someone in our profession treats someone else like garbage, or wantonly breaks the rules of exposure which they themselves have set and which they agreed to by coming on this board, I am going to speak up. And here's why: Long ago in a galaxy far far away, I learned that being a good person trumps everything. And I do mean everything. As many of you know, I train in Martial Arts. At one specific seminar, there was a teacher there who was absolutely incredible. I mean, this guy could knock you out with a single strike EASILY (and did it to several of the members of the seminar). He could break things in half that you wouldn't believe. I have done a lot of breaking (boards and bricks) but this guy was beyond anything. The guy was phenomenal and THE best martial artist I had ever seen. Many of my friends at the seminar were like minded. We all considered jumping ship and going to train with him in his style. But there was one problem. He had a very negative attitude. He tended to insult other people and not only that he also bragged about how he would go to other martial arts studios and beat up other people. He would also talk about how when a new person from another style wanted to see if his was any good he would "test them" by sparring with them, and often injuring them. Sometimes seriously. I had a little conversation with the members of my group, and convinced them that this guy was bad news. None of them (except for one) decided to train with him. I don't regret that, none of the other people did either. And the one person who did? Well... he's certainly different now. He's not the same person. And that is sad. NONE of this master's students confronted him with this bad behavior of his. All of them said "Yeah, but he's an amazing martial artist". Some of them were afraid to, because of his stature. Some felt awkward about it. They kept to being silent. Same story, different people: One of the people I worked with at Mystery Academy was a juggler. This juggler had the chance to work with one of the best jugglers in the world, someone that held world records in certain categories. My friend was incredibly excited about working with this person. Again, there was one problem. This performer went on other people's juggling websites and called them hacks. He even put up videos of them and made fun of them, possibly damaging their ability to get certain gigs. He insulted people. He tore people down. I told my friend "Don't do it, this guy is bad news." "But he's such a great juggler," they said "I can overlook all that". The famous juggler in question was looking for people to join his group of performers. My friend was excited, and the famous juggler had been so gracious before. But when the time came, he found other jugglers that were more skillful, and left my friend out in the cold, both financially and with their career. "You were right," my friend said. "It wasn't worth it." You see, experts in any field, whether it's because they are skillful or because they become famous, often think that they're above the law, and they can do whatever they want. This is because other people in the field don't want get in a scuffle with them. They fear it could affect their careers. They don't want discord in their little community of karate friends, or jugglers, or escape artists. So they're just silent whenever a person of stature acts badly, and when they do that, the famous person gets even more emboldened. I'm not going to be quiet about someone's bad behavior. I don't care if it's the best locksmith in the world or the oldest escape artist, or the pope, or the queen of Australia, or David Copperfield in tight pants or the Grand Wizard of Outer Space. No one gets to make their own rules, and no one gets to be a bad person and belittle and insult others. NO ONE. Simply because you're skilled in some area does not give you license to treat others like that. And no, I'm not going to "Let it Go" because that's exactly what said experts want. They want to break rules and treat people like crap. Then when there's a discussion about it everyone feels socially awkward and afraid of conflict, and they use that to make people "Let it go." After they do something wrong, they want to make some sort of lame excuse or fallacious reasoning so that you'll shut up and they won't have to admit that they're breaking rules (either ethical or professional). They WANT you to be quiet so they can keep on breaking rules. So if I point out someone is breaking a rule on this board I am going to argue it down until they ADMIT that they are breaking a rule. I'm not going to let them get away with it, because if I do, they'll do it again. I'm going to DESTROY all their arguments. DOWN to the letter. I should have spoken up more strongly to the Martial Arts Master and the Famous Juggler. I regret that. If I had it would have saved a lot of people a lot of heartache, and moreover it was the right thing to do. By being silent I encouraged their behavior. It's not a mistake I'm going to repeat. Here endeth the lesson.
"Tricks are about objects, Magic is about life."
-Max Maven |
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james_unlimited Loyal user UK 223 Posts |
Hmm
Lose the ego... Lose the arrogance. And start again. It's simple; post an apology for being taken the wrong way on an Internet board and move on. In life you meet people you don’t like or don't get on with. The challenge is not to be little them or attempt to beat them, but to be able to work with them and for them in return to respect you for your efforts. This helps you learn what you need to, and ultimately achieve your goal. The way you are going about it on here looks like you are expecting people to bow down and respect you. They wont. I use to tune cars and engineer the most power I could out of the relatively small engines fitted to them... But guess what, there will always be someone more knowledgeable or someone with more money, and there will always be someone with a faster car... I learnt to accept it and enjoy what I had worked hard to achieve with my own hands and with the help of others. chin up |
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magicbymccauley Special user 830 Posts |
>The challenge is not to be little them or attempt to beat them, but to be able to work with them and for them in return to respect you for your >efforts.
I am not attempting to belittle anyone. But if someone displays immoral behavior, yes, I am going to argue them down until they either admit to that immoral behavior, or leave. If you don't stand up against immoral behavior, you are a party to it. >The way you are going about it on here looks like you are expecting people to bow down and respect you. They wont. I have never had anyone bow down to me. The only exception is Karate class, but there we are bowing to each other as equals, not to me. I don't expect anyone to respect ME. What I do expect them to respect is the rules of our profession and the moral rules of being nice to others. >But guess what, there will always be someone more knowledgeable or someone with more money, and there will always be someone with a faster car... I >learnt to accept it and enjoy what I had worked hard to achieve with my own hands and with the help of others. Oh I agree about that. Like Mister Miyagi says "I am afraid, because even though I know Karate, someone out there always knows more."There's no question about that. I'm sure everyone in this section is a better escape artist than I am and has more knowledge and skill in that area. The fallacy comes into play when they think that this skill allows them to be disrespectful of others, to insult them, or to break the rules of the Café. No amount of skill in escapes allows you to break moral rules. That's the point. Standing up against people who break rules (moral or professional) isn't arrogant. It's not only any human being's right, it's their duty. There is no arrogance in doing the right thing, or pointing out that others are doing the morally wrong thing.
"Tricks are about objects, Magic is about life."
-Max Maven |
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james_unlimited Loyal user UK 223 Posts |
Fine.
Get of your high horse... or take the moral high ground into the sunset and leave us all alone then. I've tried to help you out with some simple advice. People on here aren't taking you seriously and are quite rightly mocking you. You mention professionalism? What is it you do for a living? I'm not a performer, but someone with a keen interest in escapism, I've been learning since 2006 ish... There are people here who have decades of experience and your willing to be shunned by them because you have a chip on your shoulder about a rule being broken... PS: You mention bowing at karate classes to show you are all "equal".... lol. The lower the bow the lower down the ladder you are. It is a sign of respect to the elder/more experienced practitioners. I' def consider changing schools if that's what you have been taught!! I won't be replying again, I've already summed you up as someone who is a waste of time and probably a bit of a dreamer.. I suggest you go back and practice with your karate teacher Mister Miyagi.... |
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magicbymccauley Special user 830 Posts |
>Get of your high horse... or take the moral high ground into the sunset and leave us all alone then.
Nope. Not going to do either. Going to be right here pointing out when people do mean things to one another and need to be called out on it. It serves as a deterrent for the future. >There are people here who have decades of experience and your willing to be shunned by them because you have a chip on your shoulder about a >rule being broken... Yes, I am willing to be shunned by famous people in my field because they are doing something morally wrong, and am willing to point it out. I will consider your suggestion that I should congratulate them on their nefarious deeds so that I can be like them. Okay I considered it. NOPE. >PS: You mention bowing at karate classes to show you are all "equal".... lol. The lower the bow the lower down the ladder you are. It is a sign >of respect to the elder/more experienced practitioners. I' def consider changing schools if that's what you have been taught!! I'm an American. I attend Martial Arts Classes in AMERICA. In America, we believe that all people are equal. We do not believe that people should be allowed to break professional rules or be cruel to others because they are of higher rank. We bow to each other as equals. If you are being taught that your teacher is superior to you, I suggest YOU find another school. >I won't be replying again, I've already summed you up as someone who is a waste of time and probably a bit of a dreamer.. The word you're looking for is "Principled".
"Tricks are about objects, Magic is about life."
-Max Maven |
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jay leslie V.I.P. Southern California 9498 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-11-09 13:36, james_unlimited wrote: And the higher the hat (high hat) the more important you are (Abe Lincoln) High hat, big wig, ect. • But the more you write the more time you have on your hands • the more time you have on your hands, the less money you make • the less money you make the more you need to be understood • the more you need to be understood the more you write • and try to convince your father that you know more then he does because he told you that you don't know what you're doing • so you feel misunderstood and have this urge to write • • because you have a lot of time on your hands but don't make no money. I need to finish an order so please excuse me if I don't have time to write and rewrite and write some more. We need to invent Write-Out, It's like white-out but you don't need as much to cover your monitor.
Jay Leslie
www.TheHouseOfEnchantment.com |
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magicbymccauley Special user 830 Posts |
Everyone finds time for what they think is important. I majored in Philosophy so I think its important. Im sure most people would think that building wooden trunks is a waste of time but you and I think its important, right Jay? I happen to think balancing a sword on my chin is important. Most people wouldn't spend weeks on that.
I understand a lot of people in magic have a relaxed sense of ethics. I get that few peiple care, but I do and so I can do no other.
"Tricks are about objects, Magic is about life."
-Max Maven |
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jay leslie V.I.P. Southern California 9498 Posts |
First. "Everyone finds time for what they think is important" is not reality, especially in the philosophical sense. (Philosophy being the ability to work a problem forwards and backwards so it's logical.) There are many people who are masochists and don't or won't do what's important. If you argue that, their attempt at undermining their action IS what's important then I would argue back; Then why are so many people in therapy and 12 step programs?. Some people are motivated by the sole desire to live up-to the expectations of others and other people do not have the opportunity to do what is important.
A. I made a dozen trunks three months ago and none have sold. B. If everyone says your hair is purple but you don't believe them, you're hair must be purple. Most EAs are pragmatists and have no need for over analysis. Most magicians love attention, to the point they confuse attention with affection. Hence the underlying belief that the performers time is important because it's ours that we spend with others. That's is the same philosophy that strippers have Pay me because I exist & If you're giving me attention it must mean you love me. I neither agree with or disagree with statements others make unless I've got the information and experience to know the difference. The meaning of the word wisdom, means to know the differences between things. If you make statements without years of knowledge and experience then others will view those statements as unwise. Therefore. unwise statements may be considered reactionary. Reactionary statements, to people that know differently, are not of an intellectual nature but an emotional temperament. EAs save emotions for the stage, when their emotions are reflected in their performance. Most EAs "respond" to situations while others "react". Reacting is the same as being unwise. And there lies the conflict..... or as my father would put it "There goes a guy who wants to be a Captain before he's a Sergeant". I hope I could shed some light on the subject. Now I have to get back to making more props that no one is buying... but at least I have a plan.
Jay Leslie
www.TheHouseOfEnchantment.com |
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Harley Newman Inner circle 5117 Posts |
I like pataphysics: the science of imaginary solutions.
“You can’t depend on your eyes when your imagination is out of focus” -Mark Twain
www.bladewalker.com |
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jay leslie V.I.P. Southern California 9498 Posts |
For a minute I thought you were referring to my old girlfriend but she's not here anymore.
Seriously though, there are possibly a few who might possibly benefit from digesting my last prolific poignant post (Harley, I know you get it, it's just a few others who should consider pondering the weight of it for a few days). Unless they're on a diet then they can keep chewing the cud and everyone else will look the other way. I believe I have nothing else to add to the conversation. Thank you for indulging.
Jay Leslie
www.TheHouseOfEnchantment.com |
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magicbymccauley Special user 830 Posts |
Jay. I read what you wrote three times before I understood it.
I will say this: I don't think making those sub-trunks was a waste of time. Even if they didn't sell. You spent time on them because you thought it important, and you weren't mistaken. You were just mistaken that other people would A.) think they are important, and B.) Buy them. I think they are important, but I just spent a whole bunch of change on my new illusion show, and if my fiancee sees me bring one more pair of handcuffs into the house, she's going to flip out on me (and rightfully so). Those sub trunks did create a ripple in a pool. Knowing where to get a good sub trunk, for some is a treasure. Just having the knowledge is like having a pan-dimensional gateway where they can go when they have reached the level of Seargent. I'm not a seargent yet so I can't buy it. Eugene Burger recently stated that one of his favorite books was a small one called "Programs of Famous Magicians". It tells you which tricks, illusions and escapes were done by which Magicians, and their sequence. What a treasure! What a powerful weapon! What an education! It has everyone's show, including a detailed list of effects and how they were presented, what they wore, even what the background was. Houdini's show, Kellar's show and on and on. In it I noticed two things: 1. About 75% of the shows had a torn and restored or cut and restored (paper, ribbons, rope, newspaper, bills, etc) 2. About 50% used a sub trunk or something similar. This book was a treasure. Your store is a treasure, even if I haven't purchased anything from it yet. You are right that many people don't do what is important. They do what they THINK is important rather than what is really important. Sometimes their idea of what's important is perverse and self destructive. However, importance has a power of making something that isn't important into something that is. That was Houdini's genius. He could turn a simple handcuff escape into a call for liberation of all people. That's power. I've seen a lot of react rather than respond on here. I try to respond rather than react, but nobody's perfect.
"Tricks are about objects, Magic is about life."
-Max Maven |
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Harley Newman Inner circle 5117 Posts |
"They do what they THINK is important rather than what is really important."
That's YOUR judgement, based on YOUR perceptions. We're all familiar with the concept of misdirection, though we usually apply it only to stage actions. Anybody who says that perceptions are real, forgets a thing. Their perceptions are real to them. Others may not be included. Who knows how we'd see the world differently, had we the eyes of bees? "There are as many different versions of a story, as there are tongues telling it." -ancient Mongol proverb
“You can’t depend on your eyes when your imagination is out of focus” -Mark Twain
www.bladewalker.com |
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Harley Newman Inner circle 5117 Posts |
And yes, we DO have some instigators here. We're all good at it, or we wouldn't be able to walk on stage and work an audience.
Everybody take a deep breath!
“You can’t depend on your eyes when your imagination is out of focus” -Mark Twain
www.bladewalker.com |
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magicofCurtis Inner circle Los Angeles 2545 Posts |
Magicbymccauley,
good post... agreed!
Curtis Lovell II
http://www.CurtisLovell.com http://www.MagicofCurtis.com www.facebook.com/curtislovellii Los Angeles, California - U.S.A. |
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magicbymccauley Special user 830 Posts |
Ah, Harley, you are correct:
"They do what they THINK is important rather than what is really important." I amend that to: "I percieve that they do what I think they think is important rather than what I think is really important."
"Tricks are about objects, Magic is about life."
-Max Maven |
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Harley Newman Inner circle 5117 Posts |
Yes. What's REALLY important, is for my leaves to get raked, and a couple of hurricaned trees to be cut up and chipped!
“You can’t depend on your eyes when your imagination is out of focus” -Mark Twain
www.bladewalker.com |
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magicbymccauley Special user 830 Posts |
Im on my way.
"Tricks are about objects, Magic is about life."
-Max Maven |
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magicbymccauley Special user 830 Posts |
Now where did I put those chainsaws... Know I was juggling them somewhere around here.
"Tricks are about objects, Magic is about life."
-Max Maven |
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thegreatnippulini Inner circle of Hell because I've made 2582 Posts |
"• But the more you write the more time you have on your hands • the more time you have on your hands, the less money you make • the less money you make the more you need to be understood • the more you need to be understood the more you write • and try to convince your father that you know more then he does because he told you that you don't know what you're doing • so you feel misunderstood and have this urge to write • • because you have a lot of time on your hands but don't make no money."
Simply brilliant, Jay. The more I know you, the better I like you. McCauley, take a good long time to let that sink in, try to understand how that may apply to your situation. As a realtive newcomer, you have no idea of the history I have had with Jay. It was a bit rocky. I EARNED his respect by me GIVING him his. I really don't know where you intend on going with this whole thing. I highly suggest you drop it, it is proving your thread topic. EA's do not = being a good person. As a matter of fact, I would fine it very hard to find ANY profession that automatically makes you a "good person".
The Great Nippulini: body piercer, Guinness World Record holder, blacksmith and man with The World's Strongest Nipples! Does the WORLD care? We shall see...
http://www.greatnippulini.com |
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magicbymccauley Special user 830 Posts |
Nippulini, you've brought up a numer of important points, so I will address them in turn.
>I EARNED his respect by me GIVING him his. I respect every escape artist on here, and every variety artist on here, because I know how hard those acts are to do. That being said, even though I respect them I can still disagree with them. Respect doesn't mean blind obedience. I don't think I really disagree with anything that Jay said, and I do need to think about what he said more, so that is true. >I really don't know where you intend on going with this whole thing. I highly suggest you drop it, I already explained why I'm not going to "drop it" in the above thread. "Drop it" is a tactic used by people who insist on bad behavior. They want you do "drop it" so that they won't have to have consequences for their own bad behavior. I'm not going to do that. As far as differences of opinions about minor things, I would surely drop it in terms of liking one style over another if I disagree. But in terms of ethics I WILL NOT DROP IT, because that's exactly what people who engage in unethical behavior want, and it rewards them for not playing nice. You insinuated earlier that I might be some sort of a "troll" because I won't let things go, or that I am arguing for the sake of arguing. That's not true. What I'm doing is eliminating excuses for people that break the code of conduct. If I "let it go" they can make some lame excuse for what they do and feel vindicated. Last time I "let it go" they started the whole thing up again anyway, so it had no effect. >EA's do not = being a good person. As a matter of fact, I would fine it very hard to find ANY profession that >automatically makes you a "good person". I didn't mean to say that I expected EA's or magicians to be good people. By "being" a good person, I meant in the ACTIVE sense, as in trying to be a good person with each action. Not a judgement call "You're a bad person, you're a good person". People exist on a spectrum, it's not as if people are either terrible vampires or humble saints. Everyone lives in the grey, but we strive for the good.
"Tricks are about objects, Magic is about life."
-Max Maven |
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