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panlives Inner circle 2087 Posts 
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Skeptic or Debunker?
re: Anomalous phenomena. Do you think that this group has a high percentage of either skeptics or outright debunkers due to the vocation/avocation of most of its members? Are Magicians and the magically inclined more likely to greet anomalous phenomena with skepticism or derision? I was discussing this with a friend who said something that prompted me to think along these lines. He said, “Building a mechanical marvel that flies – call it an airplane – does not invalidate the natural phenomenon of flight in birds and insects. Building an illusion which mimics, exactly, reports of ghostly apparitions does not in itself invalidate the possibility that some ghosts are more than illusions, hoaxes or hallucinations. Magicians can replicate ‘mind-reading.’ This in itself is not sufficient to invalidate serious discussions about ESP. Read Rupert Sheldrake on this topic, for serious examples. Making an orange tree bloom for an audience does not…” Thoughts?
"Is there any point to which you would wish to draw my attention?"
"To the curious incident of the dog in the night-time." "The dog did nothing in the night-time." "That was the curious incident," remarked Sherlock Holmes. |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27300 Posts
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Skeptics require evidence to justify a claim as more than a perception in context or self - serving ploy.
Debunkers go after those who use unfounded claims for gain. some in magic seek validation for a thing unfounded even in their own beliefs. Incongruence to elicit an approximation of approval? got bunk?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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stoneunhinged Inner circle 3067 Posts
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Quote:
Plenty. I haven't run into nearly as many skeptics elsewhere as here at the Magic Café. That's anecdotal, to be sure. But it's interesting. Here in Germany, I think that pretty much everyone is a skeptic. But they aren't vocal about it. Someone like Payne, who seems to have a compulsion to declare his skepticism/atheism to the world, is a mystery to me. What motivates you, Payne? Are you trying to unsave my soul? LOL! |
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Pakar Ilusi Inner circle 5777 Posts
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(Can't answer for Payne for sure...)
But I am trying to save your soul (and mine) from getting blown up by an extremist seeking His kingdom. 
(And hopefully saving our future generation's souls.) Really. Maybe my debunking is a drop in the ocean of the misguided and violent people of faith. But I'll do what I can.
To the OP, yes...
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
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Bill Nuvo Inner circle 3094 Posts or 2742 Posts
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James Randi once said that at a magic convention he suggested that we as magicians, due to our knowledge, should take part in debunking and skepticism. About half the crowd applauded while the others glared. I would say that it is probably (to varying degrees) true here on the Café as well.
We used to have a debunking/skeptic section on the Café, but it unfortunately was bombarded with flame wars (from both sides). At my local magic club, only about 40% admit or are vocal about skepticism and debunking, while others fall for the scams in question. |
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Pakar Ilusi Inner circle 5777 Posts
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I support Randi's suggestion.
If we don't while we can, what does that say about us?
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
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seadog93 Inner circle 3200 Posts
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Quote:
On 2012-11-25 15:37, Bill Nuvo wrote: :rolleyes:
"Love is the magician who pulls man out of his own hat" - Ben Hecht
"Love says 'I am everything.' Wisdom says 'I am nothing'. Between the two, my life flows." -Nisargadatta Maharaj Seadog=C-Dawg=C.ou.rtn.ey Kol.b |
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Magnus Eisengrim Inner circle Sulla placed heads on 1053 Posts
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On 2012-11-25 11:01, panlives wrote: I had never heard of Rupert Sheldrake before this post. Apparently, he can answer all our serious questions.
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21245 Posts
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Quote:
On 2012-11-25 15:37, Bill Nuvo wrote: I have to say the part of this post that makes me laugh out loud is the "due to our knowledge" part. What a joke. Most magicians I know have quite little knowledge and certainly far less than they think they have.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
Payne Inner circle Seattle 4571 Posts
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Quote:
On 2012-11-25 13:41, stoneunhinged wrote: I'm just the loyal opposition. Sometimes peoples assumptions go unchallenged. Mostly because they have never encountered an opposing point of view. I've actually met people on this very forum who had never met an atheist before. Just as DannyDoyle and Woland often challenge my assumptions and beliefs. I help maintain the balance of the universe by taking the opposing view. Life would be boring if we all agreed on everything. Besides debating ideas and ideologies can result in espousing each party to new ideas and concepts and help everyone have a better understanding of the world.
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
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Woland Special user 680 Posts
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Hi Payne,
I agree entirely with you that testing ideas with opposing views makes for better thinking and better ideas. I think Rupert Sheldrake has made a few interesting observations. Pakar Ilusi, I am deeply grateful to you for your courage and integrity. Be careful! Woland |
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Pakar Ilusi Inner circle 5777 Posts
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Quote:
On 2012-11-26 11:51, Woland wrote: Right back at you Woland!
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
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stoneunhinged Inner circle 3067 Posts
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Quote:
On 2012-11-26 11:47, Payne wrote: Thanks, Payne. I admire your position. Sometimes I find myself in the position of thinking that I am surrounded by idiots, but I say nothing. At the last departmental party I got stuck talking to some Gender Theory specialist who truly believes that nothing exists other than opinion. And I wanted to scream at her. Does the internal combustion engine mounted in her car work only because some engineer at Volkswagen opines that internal combustion engines work? It truly boggles the mind. I wanted to say, "Hey, this sounds like a discussion I had when I was in the fifth grade. And you're a university professor?" But I didn't. As critical as I am in my own thinking, I rarely confront others. It's not my cup of tea. |
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0pus Inner circle New Jersey 1739 Posts
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Sounds like she was high on pot. It's a lot like this (from "Animal House" (1978)):
"Larry: Okay. That means that our whole solar system could be, like one tiny atom in the fingernail of some other giant being. [Jennings nods] This is too much! That means one tiny atom in my fingernail could be-- "Jennings: Could be one little tiny universe. "Larry: Could I buy some pot from you?" |
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Woland Special user 680 Posts
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There is such a thing as reality, after all.
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Pakar Ilusi Inner circle 5777 Posts
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Quote:
On 2012-11-26 14:39, Woland wrote:
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
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0pus Inner circle New Jersey 1739 Posts
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On 2012-11-26 14:39, Woland wrote: Well, that's your opinion. |
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Bill Nuvo Inner circle 3094 Posts or 2742 Posts
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On 2012-11-26 11:21, Dannydoyle wrote: Sadly, you are most likely correct |
Steve_Mollett Inner circle Eh, so I've made 3006 Posts
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On 2012-11-26 14:39, Woland wrote: Yes, but objective reality, whatever it is, is independent of all our subjective interpretations of it.
Author of: GARROTE ESCAPES
The absurd is the essential concept and the first truth. - Albert Camus |
ringmaster Inner circle Memphis, Down in Dixie 1974 Posts
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"Sometimes I find myself in the position of thinking that I am surrounded by idiots, but I say nothing."
At least you don't live in Tennessee.
One of the last living 10-in-one performers. I wanted to be in show business the worst way, and that was it.
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| The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Skeptic or Debunker? (0 Likes) | |
Posted: Nov 25, 2012 04:01 pm 
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