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cboscari Regular user 119 Posts |
OK, I've been doing magic as a hobby for a long time (40 years!), and I thought I would ask everyone if they have this happen.
I read how if you pull off an amazing effect, people will often recall it later incorrectly. They may insist you never touched something, or did something, even though you did. The effect becomes more amazing with the retelling. Fair enough. Problem is, I often have the EXACT OPPOSITE happen. I'll perform an effect, and the spectator will insist that I never showed them my sleves were empty, which is bizzare, because I did the effect with short sleeves, as an example. Or that I didn't shuffle the cards before or after the selection a card in a spelling down the card trick, even though I did, and had them do it too. Twice even. While pointing at the deck and saying "See, you are shuffleing the cards. SEE? SEE?" ????? What is the problem here? Do others have this happen? It drives me crazy, because I never repeat an effect of course. I assume it's a presentation problem on my part. I don't think they are stumped and trying to rationalize a solution. So anyone have any tips on fighting this? Thanks, Chris |
Bill Hegbli Eternal Order Fort Wayne, Indiana 22797 Posts |
Of course some people will try to rationalize a solution. That is what people do if you ask them to comment.
I think you are trying to sell the impossible just to much - maybe. Try to have more fun in your presentation and smile and laugh with the crowd. Bring them in close and be more intimate with the spectators. Do not have the attitude like - here is something you will never figure out. Very bad, and they may be just getting back at you for showing off. It does sound you may want them to say that you have fooled them, and can do impossible things. Is that it? Why would it bother you otherwise. You long for recognition of some kind as to your talent or ability to fool others. I think the best you can hope for, is - I don't know how he did that trick, but it was good. Intelligent people know people do not have special powers to do tricks. There is some things to consider and think about that may be the cause for the recognition you desire. |
cboscari Regular user 119 Posts |
Hi Bill,
I don't think I consiously do the "here is something you will never figure out" thing, but that is something I will watch for. That could very well be what I am projecting even if I am not aware of it. Posted: Dec 15, 2012 7:13pm Oh, my example was just an example from my frustration, not a real example of my presentation. thanks again Chris |
Brad Burt Inner circle 2675 Posts |
Psychologically this could be an indication actually of how 'good' you are doing! When folks are totally flummoxed they will often mis-remember what happened as they scramble for some explanation of what they perceive to be impossible. Folks are remarkably bad witnesses at the best of times so don't be surprised at this happening. Just relax and don't show any negative or up tight reaction on your part. "Is that how you remember it?", you ask sincerely. In magic the challenge is ALWAYS there to some extent or another. Get yourself on video and look for clues that will tell you how you might be part of the problem. LISTEN TO and OBSERVE carefully your audience for clues as to how and why they are reacting at EVERY step along the way.
Best,
Brad Burt
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whiteoakcanyon Special user 899 Posts |
Certainly there will always be those who will find ways to rationalize what they have experienced during your performance. I think that is just part of the equation.
When I perform for friends, I will share with them a series of effects and ask them which they enjoyed most I find this very helpful for a number reasons. Most importantly, it is very helpful in the editing process. Since I never provide names for the effects, they give me feedback by recapping what they remember to have experienced. On many occasions, I listen and think, wow, I wish I really could have done that! I am trying to now work on adjusting my scripting to see if there are things I can say or not say that influence how they remember a trick. I believe that what you emphasize through words and actions does influence what people recall. I am not very good at it yet, but working on it. I hope this is helpful. I recommend Scripting Magic by Pete McCabe as a place to start. |
Dougini Inner circle The Beautiful State Of Maine 7130 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-12-15 18:40, Bill Hegbli wrote: Gotta disagree with ya here, Bill, ol' buddy! Both my sisters and their husbands are very intelligent, and I am currently at odds with them about something I performed while I was there. I did a mind-reading act. A rather dark one, dealing with insane asylums and mental illness. My visiting sister from California was up all night. Couldn't sleep thinking about how I "got into her head". Her husband thinks I am "possessed"! He is a retired CEO of an oil pump parts manufacturer. He thinks I am "playing with fire" with this act! No, some intelligent people can really believe it was real! One does have to be careful. Doug |
Atom3339 Inner circle Spokane, WA 3242 Posts |
That's how GOOD you are, Doug!
TC, I recently did an effect for a friend and he SWORE I did a move and I didn't! People's perceptions.
TH
Occupy Your Dream |
cboscari Regular user 119 Posts |
Well, any explanation that makes me think it's about my amazing skill is of course the one I'll believe!
Seriously though, one of the comments made me go back and ask a family member who recently saw a trick and did this "misremembering" thing and they admitted that they hadn't a clue how it was done, and were guessing out of shear frustration. So it may be a spectator response that I don’t hear too much about. I generally only perform for friends and family, so I don’t have a lot of experience with all kinds of spectator types. |
Ihop Inner circle Glen Spey, NY 1604 Posts |
I show a trick to my classes after class time is over. Usually there are about 7-13 students.
They start shouting. "It's a magnet" "I saw something go up your sleeve." "Static electricity" "You didn't show both hands" etc. I was doing "Sugar Rush" They also do this "misremembering thing". My point is they are all trying to guess. Eventually one may guess correctly, but you can't let on because it is only a guess.
Ihor
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Simon Mandal New user 60 Posts |
I certainly haven't had the benefit of 40 years of doing magic, but I have been lucky enough to take private lessons from some of the greats.
The wisdom that I'd pass on is to EMPHASIZE each point of fairness more strongly. Structure your presentation so that all logical explanations have been ruled out. And make this process fun with humor and entertainment value. On youtube, search for video of Pop Haydn performing the Ambitious Card. He eliminates more and more explanations of how the effect is happening, while being very entertaining along the way. Good luck! |
Harry Lorayne 1926 - 2023 New York City 8558 Posts |
I've written it so many times - don't know if it fits here, but --- People aren't fooled by what they see, they're fooled by what THEY THINK THEY SEE. Oh, and I believe Whit's Ambitious Card routine is one he learned from me (out of Close-Up Card Magic). HL.
[email]harrylorayne@earthlink.net[/email]
http://www.harrylorayne.com http://www.harryloraynemagic.com |
Kozzi New user 50 Posts |
Daniel Kahneman has written a fantastic book on how the mind processes information and simplifies heuristics in response to complex problems. Having read it it is entirely unsurprising that people would deny seeing things that you know they saw, their brain was overloaded!
Check out 'Thinking, fast and slow' for the full theory. A brilliant read, especially if anybody here has an interest in mentalism too |
Dougini Inner circle The Beautiful State Of Maine 7130 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-12-19 23:36, Harry Lorayne wrote: Bingo! I could not have put that better! Thank you Harry! Doug |
Dick Oslund Inner circle 8357 Posts |
Harry said it well! Here's another way of saying it that I have pointed out in my lectures for the last 40 years!
Magic does not happen on the stage (or close up pad!)! Magic happens in the mind of the audience! -- and since no two peoples' minds are alike, no one "sees" or "experiences" the same magic effect. I learned (50+ years ago!) that when a person (especially a young child) says, "I know how you did that"! The best response is, a smile, a wink, and,"Shhh, Don't tell anyone else"! You want to keep from escalating the situation. The audience is always right--even when they're wrong"!
SNEAKY, UNDERHANDED, DEVIOUS,& SURREPTITIOUS ITINERANT MOUNTEBANK
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Dick Oslund Inner circle 8357 Posts |
Dougini>>>
Back in the '80s, I experimented with some mental material in my high school assembly program. I used two effects that I had picked up from Ken Brooke. Maurice Fogel's FANTASY IN FLAME and SECOND SPOT. They both played very well from the start (a tribute to Fogel's genius!)but after about two months, I took them out of the program. THEY WERE TOO STRONG! Even though I presented them as entertainment, with no claims to being a "mind reader", the students wanted to believe!!! So, I can readily understand how your relatives could think you are "possessed"! Irv Weiner (Mr.Fingers) encouraged me to book some college dates. On the first date, I tried the mental stuff. It played very well. A student came back after, and said, "I enjoyed your magic"! I said, "Thank you". Then he followed up with, "But those mental things--I regard that as a religious experience"! Shades of "Nightmare Alley"!!! That's the last time I did anything of a mental nature.
SNEAKY, UNDERHANDED, DEVIOUS,& SURREPTITIOUS ITINERANT MOUNTEBANK
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djurmann Inner circle thinks time to practice and stop writing 1481 Posts |
Get people to agree. Thom Petersen does this a lot. "You saw me shuffle the cards correct? And there is no way it could be up my sleeves correct? etc etc"
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NightSG New user 67 Posts |
When I worked security, a lot of the training was just in how to be an accurate witness. Most people, even knowing there will be a quiz beforehand, will get extremely relevant and obvious details wrong when asked about an event afterward.
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vinh.giang Regular user Australia 132 Posts |
Hi Chris,
I have been performing for quite a while now and I have experienced this too! I found the best way to deal with it. There are just some people out there who feel threatened by magic, usually because you are stealing their lime light. For this reason when I perform and I recognise that one of my spectators is playing up a little (being all defensive and competitive), as a performer I will let this spectator "win" so to speak and show them a few moves here and there (really simple stuff). This really brings down their guard, usually I do a top change and tell them that is how I am switching cards, but then I say to them let me show you in performance mode and then I do a dl and pretend I am doing the top change and bam, that's enough to bring their guard down. Also remember to never have a competitive character when you are performing, this will make things even worse As magicians we have to ensure our egos are under control. Be nice, be friendly, be polite and most importantly be yourself. Good luck buddy! I hope I was able to help a little.
"Rather a mind opened by wonder, than one closed by belief."
_________________________________ www.vinhgiang.com.au www.facebook.com/askvinh www.twitter.com/askvinh |
Josh the Superfluous Inner circle The man of 1881 Posts |
I agree with djurmann. Summarize the situation as you go along.
What do you want in a site? "Honesty, integrity and decency." -Mike Doogan
"I hate it, I hate my ironic lovechild. I didn't even have anything to do with it" Josh #2 |
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