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P.W New user 8 Posts |
I wanted to do fire twirling mingling. But I not really seen people doing it before. Anybody have any idea how it looks like?
Paul
Magic & Fire |
Lee Darrow V.I.P. Chicago, IL USA 3588 Posts |
BAD idea, from several standpoints -
1. Safety. At a party, you do NOT have control of the crowd in any meaningful sense - unless you are doing a formal, standup show. People will blunder into your performing area with disturbing regularity - and with possible dire consequences. 2. Safety. What happens when (not IF, but WHEN) you drop a torch? Draperies, rugs, little old ladies, etc. all are rather flammable. 3. Insurance. Check your coverage before even THINKING about this! 4. Liability. Even insured, there is such a thing as depraved indifference and criminal negligence. Which are NOT covered. Ever. Nope. NOT a good idea at all. BUT - doing it in a separated area, might be as you can then control how things go, where people can move and the like. Still - check with your insurance people. Safety first! Lee Darrow, C.Ht. http://www.leedarrow.com
http://www.leedarrow.com
<BR>"Because NICE Matters!" |
joculari New user Canada 80 Posts |
I do a fire eating routine at a restaurant and it's never been a problem. I talked it over with the manager and he doesn't mind it at all as long as I don't spit any fire. Usually it's just fire transfers from tongue to torch, torch to hand , hand to torch and some fire picking form torch. Small fire eating torches are safe and impressive.
But I'm gonna have to go with mstrhypno, twirling is for outdoors. I've dropped torches indoors and unless your fast enough to pick them up you're only looking to set your house on fire. |
Lee Darrow V.I.P. Chicago, IL USA 3588 Posts |
Or a guest or two.
ANYTHING that could cause permenant injury or give you a problem with the local Fire Marshall is out. After the tragedies in Rhode Island and Chicago recently, Fire Marshalls are cracking down on pyrotechnical presentations - big time. And it doesn't matter whether the manager is okay with someone doing fire effects or not. If the Fire Marshall sees it and the proper licenses and insurances and safety precautions aren't in place he can and probably WILL CLOSE THE PLACE. Remember, a manager runs the restaurant, but a Fire Marshall is THE LAW. In a disagreement between the two - guess who wins. Hint, it's NOT the manager! So be careful out there. One other note for fire workers: Silly String, the aerosol spray "string" that has been popular at parties recently is EXTREMELY flammable! I saw an episode of America's Funniest Videos recently where a guy was covered in the stuff and it went up when he leaned over to blow out the candles on his birthday cake! FHWOOSH!! BIG flare and the stuff was gone! So were the guy's eyebrows, arm hair and moustache. Safety first out there! Lee Darrow, C.Ht. http://www.leedarrow.com
http://www.leedarrow.com
<BR>"Because NICE Matters!" |
Mr Amazeo Regular user 186 Posts |
A couple of months ago Zippo Lighters was hiring magicians in various big cities to show off Zippo Tricks (I think their web site is still up at zippotricks.com) and promote their lighters in bars and nightclubs. They sent out a training package and even came to your city and spent a day training you. The gig was susposed to be 2 nights a week for 8 weeks.
After all of that, they ended up canceling the promotion because they were having so much trouble getting approval from the fire marshalls in each town. We just had one of our downtown restaurants sustain 1.5 million in damage from a bands pyrotechnics. Bottom line is if they are reluctant to let zippo demonstrations into a club, any type of fire work may be in question. If you are doing fire work, you may want to check your insurance policy - mine specifically excludes liability damage for this type of performance. |
joculari New user Canada 80 Posts |
Well it isn't a problem in canada. We don't have fire marshalls to crack down on us.
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Bobcape Elite user Rapid City, SD 470 Posts |
I think you may have missed the point of the advice given to you. It wasn't meant to make you aware that you'll have to figure a way to get by the fire marshals as much as it was to make you aware that doing fire effects make you and the establishment liable. It may seem like a neat effect to do until you examine the potential gains and losses from a business perspective. What do you stand to gain and what could you potentially lose?
If you will carefully re-read all of the posts above from working pros, you will see that the advice given to you is that there is too much liability. Even if a restaurant manager, (who's likely not the owner) says it's OK to do fire inside, all that means is that when a customer decides sue, for whatever reason, you'll have some company at the trial. Bob
Be Amazed! + Enjoy The Magic!
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Lee Darrow V.I.P. Chicago, IL USA 3588 Posts |
Bob, you are absoultely right.
Liability is the issue here, not getting past the law (which is always a BAD idea for a performer). Note that the restaurant noted above sustained $1.5 MILLION in damages from a fire show. The question would be - can you handle that kind of loss? Because insurance companies have something called "subrogation." What subrogation means is that, even if the restaurant IS insured, the insurance company can come after YOU to recoup their losses because of YOUR actions - even if you were found not guilty in a criminal proceeding. Therefore, you have to weigh the following - your ENTIRE financial future against "looking cool" for some restaurant customers who may or may not tip you. The last time I did the math - it simply was NOT worth it. And subrogation exists in Canada as well, as do Fire Inspectors (same job, different title is all). I checked. Lee Darrow, C.Ht. http://www.leedarrow.com
http://www.leedarrow.com
<BR>"Because NICE Matters!" |
El_Lamo Special user Canada 589 Posts |
Joculari,
We have fire marshalls. One of my friends is one. We just call them inspectors. And they are really concerned about this stuff! Cheers - El Lamo
Life is a system of circumstance presented coincidently in an illusory way.
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Whit Haydn V.I.P. 5449 Posts |
In California, you would not be allowed to use any kind of fire, even flashpaper, on stage or in an enclosed public space, such as a restaurant, without a professional pyrotechnic license.
Many, many people do it anyway--at least with flashpaper--myself included. But it is a technical violation, and you are in fact, in breech of public safety regulations--and therefore both subject to prosecution, and fully liable for any damages both from the restaurant for which you are working, regardless of the manager's approval, and from it's customers, neighbors, etc. Many years ago Mark Kalin was once sued for $25,000 by a woman who's dress was damaged by thrown flashpaper, and the damage was only a pinhole-sized burn in the silk fabric. |
Lee Darrow V.I.P. Chicago, IL USA 3588 Posts |
Maestro Hayden has just put his finger on the point I have been trying to make.
No matter HOW small the damage is, the damages that COULD be awarded in such a case can cripple you. Not to mention that, even if you win in court, the attorney's fees WILL kill you. Those guys go for what many of us do, per hour, including any time you spend with them on the phone. A mid-range lawyer in Chicago actually comes in a bit low for a pro magician doing a home party - $300/hour. Can any of us stand a two day trial at those rates? I sure as shootin' can't! Lee Darrow, C.Ht. http://www.leedarrow.com
http://www.leedarrow.com
<BR>"Because NICE Matters!" |
snilsson Regular user Stockholm, Sweden 186 Posts |
Living in a country were I don't have to worry about frivolous lawsuits I do use flash string for closeup.
I use a short piece of string, about 6 inches, consisting of only two strands. This is enough to give a good flash. I start by showing the string explaining that it is, in fact, explosive. Then I tell everyone to take a step backwards for safety. Sometimes I even say that it's "flash string". They usually don't believe any of this but it's good theater and you minimize the risk. Also it helps focusing. As always you have to be very careful to point out the magic moment or people will miss it. I hold the string at the very end between thumb and first finger and use a lighter to set the other end on fire. You have to be very careful not to drop the string too early. Occasionally it will burn rather slowly and if you drop it too early it will still be on fire when it hits the floor. In fact, I throw the string _slightly_ upwards. Then, of course, I do my production. This may seem very simple. It isn't. It took my a few hundred attempts to make it sure fire. Pun intended. |
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