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jokerthehoudini New user 66 Posts |
If anyone has this item please pm me thank you...
Also has any one seen Amos Levkovitch: Wings DVD 75 Minutes of Expert Dove Magic Secrets Insights on Dove Effects, Training, and Care Ingenious Production Techniques Live Amos dove performance Just wondering if it's a good DVD?and diffrent Thanks Henry |
sperris Special user http://www.Anti-Conjuror.com 881 Posts |
Hi Henry,
Amos has great material in those DVDs - they were at one time available from his web site. I no longer sell my DVDs or material on dove work and only do private instruction/help desk type stuff in person or via skype. A few years ago I started to regret putting out the DVDs because as I saw more dove acts coming out on YouTube - many of which were by people that I knew bought my products - I couldn't help but feel responsible for them attempting to perform outside of their ability which led me to have questions to the dove's safety. I can only urge and stress so much via a video tape about being gentle and careful with them and stupid me thought people would listen. I'm sure many do take that important aspect into consideration, but there are still many who for whatever reason do not. It may be cultural differences, age/development differences, or they're just in it for the wrong reasons and are yanking the bird to fuel a false sense of greatness. Some of the more recent methods and movement especially with IH work is being done without any consideration or understanding of absorption of impact from the production of the bird. I really believe all dove acts these days should take a course or two in physics, and if you're doing research in dove work I strongly recommend you do the same. This is why once I started working on SixStealS (hinted in technical tosses) I stopped about a quarter of the way through because I realized that the forward thinking behind the productions will fall into the wrong hands of people who are not and may never be ready to do them. I'm not saying that you are one of these examples I gave above - I'm just saying this is why I no longer just mass sell my dove magic ideas/material. Honestly about once a week or so I get forwarded about the same 4 or 5 YouTube videos of dove acts from around the world sent to me by fans, friends, or family all saying they can't believe how cruel it looks to the birds...and I have to agree with them some of them I can't even watch - and the "tone" of every forward is that they hope "that's not how I do it" because lay audiences aren't stupid - they know its in the coat some how, and if the production appears harsh in any way the audience will turn on you. So now I find myself guilty by association. I think I remember hearing there was rumors at one point FISM was going to ban dove acts or animal acts or something like that - which probably isn't a bad idea. And other contests maybe should have some sort of application process and minimum requirements for housing etc maybe sent in via video tape along with the act and instead of saying nothing try to coach the acts on how to better their care, etc. Wow that's a lot - sorry about getting off topic and up on a soap box and rambled...like I said not saying any of this is you in fact I appreciate your inquiry of all these other dvds etc. You're doing the right thing by researching. You should literally buy EVERY dove DVD and book you can and read them all and watch them all. Best of luck as you continue on in your dove quest!
DANSPERRY.COM
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Michael Baker Eternal Order Near a river in the Midwest 11172 Posts |
Dan,
Glad to hear your input on that. I first became familiar with IH back in the 1970's. They had obviously been around for awhile before that, but didn't really start to latch on until the publication of Adair's Encyclopedias. At that time, I was working in a magic shop and saw a number of horrible IH products hit the market. Working with doves at that time, I couldn't believe that such inferior, and dangerous products were being sold. I was also amazed that it would even be considered that one size should fit all. I used them for a long time, but I made each myself, including redesigning them so that all factors were taken into consideration. I also custom-fitted each to the "wearer". Maybe it was just me, but it seemed the right thing to do. At that time, I was probably young enough that it didn't really cross my mind that some performers would ignorantly add to the problem, by the way they used any of the products, good or bad. That epiphany came later when I had more opportunity to see more performers in action. Had You Tube existed in those days, it would have of course been different. Back then, you had to be there when they performed. Your decision to not spread the information should be seen as just as important as not making information on fire magic openly available to just anyone. Without going off on another tangent, one of the top producers of fire magic devices manufactured some pretty crude stuff, in my opinion. Thank you for your stance on this. ~michael
~michael baker
The Magic Company |
jokerthehoudini New user 66 Posts |
Thanks for the reply Dan,
I have your DVD and most of all dove DVDs except the extreme hard to find or no longer made DVDs.i have your DVD and was hoping that you would write hear.so the question is I have your DVD and its so old and during the years got badly scratched and was trying to look for a replacement. But since you no longer make it I'm 100% sure you don't have a copy and it's no worries I learned what I needed to. Thanks anyways Henry |
Regan Inner circle U.S.A. 5726 Posts |
Dan, I respect your decision to pull your DVD from production. I understand your feelings and frustrations too, but I think you should reconsider. I know there are wannabe dove guys out there that will never treat them the right way, no matter how much training they have, but there are those (like myself) who take the time to learn to do dove magic the right way.
I always wanted to get into dove magic, but I was concerned about the well-being of the doves. I forced myself to learn everything I could about dove magic, beginning with the proper care of the birds. I actually started with a book on doves that I bought from the pet store. After that I picked up a copy of "The Encyclopedia Of Dove Magic" and all of the Tony Clark books, but I felt there was still much more that I needed to know. I started buying videos on Dove Magic but they still did not provide all of the information I was seeking. I began talking to everyone I could that knew about doves and dove magic. I slowly gained the knowledge that I needed, but I literally spent years learning and trying to make the right decision. I knew for a long time that I wanted to put doves into my act, but ultimately the decision hinged entirely on the well-being of the doves. I had to make sure that I could properly care for and house the doves before I would take the plunge. Having said all that, if it had not been for the books, people like you that made video training courses, and the kind and gracious helpful people that answered so many of my 'silly' questions, I would never have gotten into doves magic. Dan, you should be commended for your genuine concern for the doves, but I believe your DVDs are providing a valuable service. Had I had to rely on one-on-one, personal training I would have never had the opportunity to learn about dove magic. I know there will be those that misuse, or maybe ignore the vital information that you provide, but there will also be those that take it to heart. There is no doubt in my mind that the number of doves treated well because of yours and other dove training videos far surpass the number of doves treated poorly because it might lure someone into dove magic. Most of the ones that want to try dove magic and have no concern for the birds would try it regardless, in spite of what they know or don't know. At least having a source of information may educate some of them to put the care and well-being of the doves above everything else, and may even help change their mindset on the matter! Education is vital, no matter what field we are in. It can open our eyes and help us to see the important things. Sometimes the most damage occurs when we dive into something blindly.
Mister Mystery
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Michael Baker Eternal Order Near a river in the Midwest 11172 Posts |
Regan, this might make you a contender for some of that private instruction that Dan mentioned, while him still avoiding the mass selling of the material, as he also mentioned. At least that affords him the control of who is the ultimate consumer of his information.
I am old school, and from an era when the student had to earn his education, not just afford the sticker price. I have little doubt that you could prove your worthiness.
~michael baker
The Magic Company |
Regan Inner circle U.S.A. 5726 Posts |
Michael, I totally agree that private instruction is the best option...for all parties involved. I'm just saying that it is not readily available in many, many areas. Had I not had access to the dove information I would have never had a chance to do what I wanted to do so badly. My first concern was for the doves, and without access to the knowledge I would have given up and just let it pass me by. Not every one would have. Those that are not concerned with the care and well-being of the doves are the ones we are concerned about, and they are the very ones that are most likely move forward...whether they know what they were doing or not. Dove magic is not something you want to try and 'learn' on your own, and experimentation could be detrimental to the safety and health of the doves. At least having access to vital information might help. I know it won't in every case, but I also believe it will in many.
I would not consider private instruction at this time. I still feel like I am learning myself! Plus, I have way too much on my plate as it is.
Mister Mystery
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Michael Baker Eternal Order Near a river in the Midwest 11172 Posts |
I understand, Regan. Having lived in more isolated, remote locations, I know it can be frustrating. I did it at a time when there were no personal computers, let alone internet. I spent many years raising and performing with doves, and my information came from three sources, 1) books, 2) the advice of those already in the field who found reason to trust me, and 3) my own exploration. I would like to add that I don't believe I am the type of person causing the problem. That level of irresponsibility is not really part of my make-up. Knowing you on the Café as long as I have, I believe the same of you. It seems unfair that we pay the debt caused by others.
I also understand Dan's point. The inability to predict the actions of others is why we have to lock our doors, and remove our shoes at the airport. I suspect Dan has adopted the course of action that he feels gives him the maximum control over the effects of his offerings. He saw a Pandora's Box being opened by his own hand, and had the good heart to stop it. I have to respect that. Unfortunately, such marketed offerings are only practical when done on a large scale, unless the unit price is huge. I think you can see the choices here. In spite of these hurdles, I'm sure you will find a way to continue. First, there is already a ton of information already available... far more than any one magician could ever use. Second, SOMEONE has to be the innovator of ideas. I think if you look at yourself, you won't find any labels indicating that you are not one of them. :)
~michael baker
The Magic Company |
Regan Inner circle U.S.A. 5726 Posts |
I totally agree Michael. I do understand and respect Dan's decision. I was really trying to console him more than talk him into changing his mind. As you said, there are more than enough information out there. I have so many books and DVDs on dove magic, and some on dove care. I just didn't want Dan to feel that he was responsible for the stupidity of some. I will say this: I think there is room for a comprehensive book and/or DVD on the care of doves. I learned so much of that part from talking to experienced dove workers, both in person and here at the magic Café.
I also understand your point about experimentation, exploration, and innovation. I didn't mean to suggest that it was bad, or that everyone that experimented without previous knowledge would harm doves, or anything like that. Where would we be today without experimentation? I realize the importance and appreciate the one's that learned on their own. Many were forced to do so before any information was even available! That blows my mind sometimes. I know many of those that did were very responsible and careful with the animals. I would guess that much harm was done sometimes though, even with the best of intentions. That could happen no matter how much knowledge we may or may not have, but I'm not sure I would have been bold enough to try dove magic without at least some knowledge of the art. Having said that, I would have probably been more bold if I knew no knowledge existed. And who knows, maybe I would have found a way if I had no source of information, but I would have most likely just given up on dove magic. I'm thankful there are many like yourself that did not give up! Without them where would most of us be today?
Mister Mystery
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Michael Baker Eternal Order Near a river in the Midwest 11172 Posts |
I agree, Regan.
~michael baker
The Magic Company |
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