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ChrisC New user 66 Posts |
Experience
-Been studying and preforming since I was 14(six years) -Preformed close up at restaurants on a weekly basis all throughout high school (4 years) -Done a few private strolling gigs -Done a few stage mentalism shows, but my stage act is not NEARLY as polished as my close up -Stage act featured in local news last year (NPR’s Newsworks) -Read a few books on business/marketing/sales -Some experience in direct sales -Took a small break from magic Goals - Full time professional entertainer - 3-5 weekly restaurant gigs - Steady flowing close up/strolling gigs, as many as possible - Polish my stage act and eventually marketing it as my main act. (I'm thinking every night I don't have a booking I should look for an open mic to hone my stage stuff) - Eventually, way down the road I might want to get into illusions, More for artistic purposes and fun than profit. For you full time pro’s, do you recommend one or more of the following to help me get a kick start on things? A. Jim Snacks Course: What I like most is the unlimited email support, I also think that once my stage act is polished his stuff will be more relevant to booking stage shows. B. Lou Serrano’s Course- Highly targeted towards close up performers, which fits my current situation perfectly. Not much info on his site about the contents though, and from the sales page it seems a little Direct Response Marketing heavy for my taste. C Just read allot of business books, and figure it out as I go along. Magic specific and general. I have read a few Seth Godin, Al Ries ext. I have HUGE list of ones to read on my amazon account, plus the [url=http://personalmba.com/best-business-books/personal MBA reading list[/url], and am a bit overwhelmed, any tips on prioritizing? (I'm going to do this anyways, I kind of want a magic specific foundation to build upon and eventually make my own.) D. A combination of the above This is not immediately relevant, but as far as long term goals go, I would like to schedule my shows so they are batched. I read that Richard Osterlind preforms one corporate show per week. I would rather do 10-12 shows a month for a 6-8 months out of the year and travel during my time off. Again I know this will take years to build up to but what target markets fit this description that I should look out for? Fairs, Cruise Ships, Corporate? And yes I know this is at least five years out, right now I just want to book as many shows as possible and hustle. -Chris |
Paddy Inner circle Milford OH 1571 Posts |
Both Lou's AND Jim Snack's courses will help. I have both and they both helped me A LOT!! If you get both courses, and FOLLOW THEIR ADVICE (i.e. ACT don't just read) you WILL BE successful. Note the emphasized words, you have to act on what these men tell you and it's not "may be" but you WILL BE successful, I personally guarantee it.
Peter "Paddy" Lansing http://www.Scho-Lan.com |
gman Special user Lancaster, pa 751 Posts |
Paddy I disagree, Chris, I say STAY AWAY FROM Jim Snack's Course at all cost! It is a total waste of money!!! Not only does he take Denny Haney's materials for what types of shows to create and other general marketing books but he says things like you should be doing totally free shows for like 5 or 10 years before you should even consider getting a paid gig.
To me I think I paid like $250 for it and it was money down the DRAIN. Oh and Paddy he seems to think that people over the age of 25 should not be doing magic on the street. Chris, I would do either B,C,OR D. STAY FAR AWAY FROM A! |
Close.Up.Dave Inner circle Behind you! 2956 Posts |
I didn't do the course, but Jim's individual ebooks are great, and you can buy what's relevant to what you want so the cost stats low. Also, I'd check out a Book called It Takes Guts Dammit. Aside from that, given what you already read, the next step is putting knowledge into action. I've bought courses and I continuously read, but going out and doing helps the most.
Also, check out anything by Barry Friedman of the Rasypini Brothers. |
Mindpro Eternal Order 10587 Posts |
Wow, this is the very first time in all of these years that I've ever heard a single bad word about Jim Snack's materials. To each his own I guess. Most consider Jim's materials very helpful and professional, but like any material, as other's have stated, you must take action.
That would be the answer from me - it really doesn't matter whose or what resources you choose, as while many are similar each have their own uniquenesses, mentalities and insights based on their own experiences, it really depends how it applies to you. Ultimately what you will want to do is study several or as many of these such courses and resources, then adapt them to your interests and incorporate them into your own custom created action plan. This will more than likely not come from one source but a compilation of many as they pertain directly to you, your interests and direction. Also many of your interests as mentioned will require separate and individual approaches. The way one would approach strolling or closeup magic is much different that marketing and promoting a mentalism stage show. Two different styles, mentalities, audiences, marketing approaches and execution. While the basic and general components may be similar there are some very specific differences. Also remember sales, marketing, promotion and advertising are all different things as well. They often get lumped together but are each very separate components that must be understood as well. Also as part of your goals the should be defined very specifically. The Goal of "being a full-time entertainer is a very vague goal. It's like saying "I want to lose weight". It won't happen or at least not easily and consistently. Goals must be specific and defined. For example one of my goals many years ago was I wanted to make a million dollars as an entertainer. That was a vague overall goal. When I broke it down to specific steps it not only became a more clearly defined and understood goal, but became easier to see and execute. Once I reached that goal, I would continue to reset goals, but again specifically. Just a few thoughts, I wish yo the best as it can be a very exciting time going pro. |
Al Angello Eternal Order Collegeville, Pa. USA 11045 Posts |
If you are looking for a good cook book I recommend Betty Crocker. If you are looking for marketing advise go to the book store and buy a paperback marketing book. It doesn't make any difference if you are selling doughnuts or magic shows.
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/ "Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone" |
ChrisC New user 66 Posts |
Thanks everyone for the input!
I'm going to get Lou Serrano's course along to use as a starting point or "base system" and then as I learn more about business from non-magician authors I will adapt it to fit my needs Mindpro- What are your favorite books and resources on the business side of magic? What would you suggest they use?” I've seen from your posts you are very successful, what makes you different? Who trained or influenced you? Do you know any impressive lesser-known teachers?” -Chris |
Jim Snack Inner circle 1338 Posts |
I thought I should jump into this discussion to clarify a few things and address a few points from an obviously dissatisfied customer.
I wrote the Success in Magic course in 2003, offering it as a downloadable ebooks with mp3 files or as printed material. Over the years I added material to the point it reached over 750 pages with 12 audio CDs. I offered it with a money back guarantee, a 30-minute coaching call and unlimited email support. Over the past decade I've worked with hundreds of satisfied customers and have only had three people request refunds, which they promptly received. About a year ago I felt it need updating, so I stopped selling it as a course and broke it into 21 separate pieces, which were updated and improved. They are now offered individually as downloadable products on my Success in Magic website. I no longer sell the material as a complete course, although you can buy The Complete Collection on the website at a good discount. If you wait for one of my many sales, you can save even more. In the material, I share my real life experiences building my business first as a family entertainer in upstate New York, and then later moving into corporate speaking and training. Whenever I thought there was someone else who could give better advice about a particular market, I included their material with permission, or I pointed the reader to the original source. For example, I recommended that anyone wanting to build their business take Denny Haney's advice and work on their club act first and I recommend that they purchase Denny's lecture notes on the subject. I included that great advice with Denny's permission. He told me that got so many requests from people who read my material that he reprinted his old lecture notes on the business of magic and put them back on the market. Just to set the record straight, I NEVER recommended that performers do free shows for five to ten years before doing a paid gig. In Volume One of the original course, I recommended that "If you don’t have any shows booked you should volunteer to do a few free shows in your community. Not only will it give you valuable experience in front of audiences, but you will start to get noticed as a magician." I still stand by that advice. Furthermore, in the same section, I wrote, "After you’ve gotten sufficient experience in front of audience you will want to start giving requests for free shows careful consideration," and included my strategy for turning a request for a free show into a paid engagement. The course was designed for someone looking to start their performing business or performers looking to build their business in the first 5-10 years, and as such, the focus is on the business of magic. You can't be in business if you are just doing free shows! If anyone has any questions, feel free to email me and I will be happy to answer your questions. If anyone has advice for improving the material, I'm all ears. Finally, regarding street performing, I don't think it is only for performers under the age of 25. Heck, I still do street performing myself at least once a year at the Art Deco Festival in Miami Beach, alongside another wonderful older street performer - Gazzo! Jim |
Mindpro Eternal Order 10587 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-06-24 00:57, ChrisC wrote: I think your question (What are your favorite books and resources on the business side of magic?) leads to one of the greatest problems with magicians...they think like, and approach their business as....magicians. I do not say this as a slam to magicians but simply to make a point. As long as this mentality exists you are greatly limiting yourself and your business. You should be thinking like ENTERTAINERS. There is a difference. This is one of the reasons I have a hard time recommending business resources is because most materials targeted towards magicians is from a magician's perspective, usually written by magicians. This is fine to learn that person's journey or perspectives, but again is very mono or single focused. This is also why after years of prodding and personal coaching and consulting I am currently working on several entertainment business resources that should be available within the year. The same happened to the Disc Jockey industry. For many decades since the '70's and disco, DJs only saw themselves as DJs. The industry was music-based. Because of that it became limiting very quickly. I and several others spoke out on this in the 80's stating that DJs relying on their music only would be extremely limiting. Once digital music arrived the industry would take a great hit. To survive and thrive they needed to start thinking like entertainers. As an industry they did, the became more personality driven, more Master of Ceremonies and entertainers, they implemented interactive, audience participation elements, they expanded and many added karaoke, trivia nights, dancers, taught line dancing, became entertainers known for their "show". There are million dollar DJ business now based on these concepts. Not all subscribed to this, and many, many fell by the wayside, other still thrive. Some still make $350 for a five hour wedding, others make $2500-$3300, not because they're DJs, but because they're entertainers, with a show, production and more. I'm hoping you see my point. Whenever I hear of a magician wanting to go pro or full-time, but yet they just want to perform magic, they will always be chasing their next booking. They will always typically only be known as a magician, in the small sector that they choose to serve and that's how they will be perceived and remembered. However the ones that are entertainers, will be perceived and remembered much differently and in non-limiting capacities. An entertainer entertains with magic as only his or her tool or vehicle to entertain. It's almost secondary. They (their personality and show) are what should create the entertainment. A magician performs magic and relies on the magic and will typically only be hired by those looking for a magician or magic show. Having been able to operate for over 35 years as part of not one but four agencies handling many different types of acts, artists and styles of performers, I have had the very unique perspective to understand many types of performers from storytellers and magicians to nationally know celebrities, sports figures, the most famous bands and comedians and everything in between. My perspectives are based on the real word day to day business operations from the culmination of all of these. I am not your person to ask about magic business courses. I typically stay away from them. Even when I'm sent one to review I usually decline because they are also so limiting in my opinion. I'm sure there's some good stuff out there, but it's a hard read for me to wade through all the magician's perspective to find the possible nuggets. I am much more versed on all levels of being an entertainer and entertainment business on local, regional and national levels. While some lump it all together, it really is much different and should be approached as such. How you perceive and position yourself is part of the foundation of your business. If this foundation is weak or limiting, what really can you expect from your business as your proceed? |
ChrisC New user 66 Posts |
Thanks guys
I am returning the Lou Serrano Course. While waiting for it to come in the mail I went out and booked the first restaurant I pitched, and am now working on getting 3 more. Jim- I downloaded some of your individual pieces and am very happy with them. Mindpro- I completely see what you mean, I make a conscious effort not to be a "magician." It's more of a way for me to pump people up with my ridiculous personality and make them smile. Part of the reason I have trouble understanding how people cold call or direct marketing there art to people who have not seen them preform. I don't want people hiring me as a magician, I want people hiring me as "me" if that makes any sense. |
Blindside785 Inner circle Olympia, WA 4541 Posts |
I'm trying to figure out between the Lour Serrano Course and Jim Snack's myself.
I just did a paid close up show and am close to booking a free show for a fundraiser. So far I really like Jim Snack's advice, that's what I'm going for. Booking a few free shows to get known and just get myself out there. I think I might purchase Lou's and purchase some of Snack's individual pieces along the way. |
Gerry Walkowski Inner circle 1450 Posts |
Blindside,
You're an Inner Circle member with over 3,000 posts and your asking what magic marketing course you should buy? Am I missing something here? Gerry |
Blindside785 Inner circle Olympia, WA 4541 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-07-25 05:10, Gerry Walkowski wrote: I suppose you might just be. I've done a few small gigs on the side but don't know much of the odds and ends of the business aside from a little personal experience doing some gigs and reading Jim Pace and Jim Sisti's restaurant guides. Sadly, some magicians think you are born with this information about the odds and ends. I'm looking into a course to help me move in the right direction. Please be aware, posts does not mean "Professional" magic experience. The more magicians I talk to about the business side the sadder it gets. |
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