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Kyle Elder Regular user Fresno, California 119 Posts |
Hey everyone. I rarely ever start my own topic, but I felt
The need to share this with you guys, I think there may be Others out there that might like this. I own and love my 64 Kennedy schoolcraft flipper. (Not to mention I bought it from him in person at magic live and he's an amazing guy). A few days ago I also bought a used mark mason and bob swadling NGF Flipper. I was curious to see how they Improved the flipper to not rely on rubber bands to work. I also wanted To weigh out the pros and cons of each coin. I'm also very impressed With this flipper as well. After spending a couple of days playing around With each one side by side, I had come up with what I liked better about Each coin. Both coins had a different pro that I really liked. With schoolcrafts flipper the design alows the rubber band to be completely internal making it possible To mill the edges to look more like a real coin. As with swadlings flipper the Inner coin has the groove around the edge, meaning if looked at long enough You can notice the groove on the edge(which shouldn't be an issue when Performing, I doubt any spectator will notice this at all). With the swadling flipper it's replaced the rubber band with special elastic Thread instead. Meaning its longer lasting, less likely to snap if expose to hot Weather, and in my opinion it closes a lot smoother and quieter. I thought to Myself if only I could have the best of both worlds, the internal design of Flipper and the longer lasting and smoother effects of the elastic thread. So I immediately took apart my schoolcraft flipper and started trying to work out a way to tie the elastic thread inside the internal groove. I assure You it's way more difficult of a task then one might think, it didn't go over as Easy as I thought. But eventually after trying several different ideas in attempt to tie the elastic in the groove I was succesful. It took me what seemed like forever to finally find a way to tie the elastic successfully in that tiny groove. All in all it worked and I must say its the best ever. Now my schoolcraft Flipper is working with elastic thread giving it all the perks of the NGF flipper. Now I can no longer worry about a chance of the rubber band breaking during Performing. It works even smoother and quiete, and I just feel like its going to Much better for much longer. I just wanted to take the time to share my thoughts on this just in case this Thought crossed someone else's mind as well and they were wondering If it was possible to pull off and if it would be worth the trouble. I truly feel it was worth every bit of frustration trying to tie that thread in Such a small space. I'm surprised at how much smoother it works(IMO) When I was convinced there was no improving an already amazing flipper Coin by one of the best coin gaffers around. If anyone else owns both coins and are interested in how I managed to Get the elastic thread tied on my schoolcraft flipper, feel free to shoot me A PM and I'll try to explain it. I hope someone benefits from this thought and experience of mine I Randomly decided to share here. |
Kyle Elder Regular user Fresno, California 119 Posts |
I apoligize about the formats of my writing above that's what I get for typing this up on my iphone.
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Dentian Loyal user 278 Posts |
That is an interesting idea, although I think it is unnecessary to have the NGF and the ordinary flipper to create the gaff, you can simply purchase the elastic thread. But if you are interested in getting the actual NGF, then go for it.
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Kyle Elder Regular user Fresno, California 119 Posts |
True I'm sure you could purchase the thread by itself. But I wanted to try the coin out as well. Both are great coins. I'm sure ill find use for both.
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Dentian Loyal user 278 Posts |
Ah yes ok, does the NGF come with extra elastic thread? I also bought my flipper from schoolcraft at Magic Live this year, it's great,
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Al Desmond Inner circle Secret Mountain Lair in Conifer, Co 1511 Posts |
I brought this up in another thread and I went back and forth with other Café members, most of them were sure this couldn't be done. The bottom line was other Café users didn't believe me when I said this could be accomplished. It's nice to have confirmation from another magician that this is possible. I use elastic thread in all my flippers and folding coins... and I didn't have to invest in a new product.
Elastic thread is available on Amazon and many sources that deal with "beading" and other jewelry crafts. |
videoman Inner circle 6732 Posts |
I would prefer the elastic thread over rubber bands in my flipper, however the bands are fairly easy to replace and I don't have to do it that often.
I can imagine the thread being a nightmare to replace as Kyle described. I believe that for myself and many others it would be impossible to switch to the thread. So while it may be possible, it may also be impossible if you know what I mean. |
Kyle Elder Regular user Fresno, California 119 Posts |
Videoman I do totally understand what you mean. It wasn't to bad to where it wouldn't be worth it to me. The way I look at it I might be a little more work to tie the thread but you will surely not have to replace it nearly as often. Not to mention if you ever get down to trying it, I feel the flipper just works smoother with elastic thread.
Al Desmond, I'm glad to help confirm with you that it is indeed possible. And works better(IMO) Dention, The NGF flipper does come with extra thread. At least it did in the triception set, which is how I bought it. |
attken New user 77 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-09-06 15:31, Al Desmond wrote: HI AI , Can you provide the exact line on Amazon ? Because there are a lot differnet kind of thread(size) for beading. |
jcrabtree2007 Special user 627 Posts |
I'd like to learn how this is done. I hate replacing the thread. So why not. And lose the fear of having the band snap during a routine. I feel its worse to have a gaff exposed during coin magic than to drop an extra coin or flash. While flashing or dropping a coin is embarrassing, exposing a gaff in coin magic would lead a spectator to believe that is all you are doing to do coin magic. That you are just using gaffed coins and that skill is not involved (not so).
Thanks Kyle. Hey Al. |
Chessmann Inner circle 4242 Posts |
Folks might have to purchase 2-3 different elastics in order to find the best size - some are thicker, some are thinner. I had a Tango Internal Folder that I couldn't get the extra elastic it came with to go through (!) so I had to go buy my own. Worked out, but my main issue was getting the knot into an invisible position.
My ex-cat was named "Muffin". "Vomit" would be a better name for her. AKA "The Evil Ball of Fur".
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Chessmann Inner circle 4242 Posts |
You might have to purchase 2-3 different elastics in order to find the best size - some are thicker, some are thinner. I had a Tango Internal Folder that I couldn't get the extra elastic it came with to go through (!) so I had to go buy my own. Worked out, but my main issue was getting the knot into an invisible position.
My ex-cat was named "Muffin". "Vomit" would be a better name for her. AKA "The Evil Ball of Fur".
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Bill Veteran user and Pretty Nice Guy 373 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-09-07 11:17, Chessmann wrote: Is it possible to Super Glue the ends of the thread, like you do for Loops and Rubber Bands? |
BanzaiMagic Inner circle 1339 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-09-06 15:51, videoman wrote: I have done this with my OXF with NGF thread and I can't recommend it. I am reluctant to discuss why on an open thread because a lot of research and design went into the Mason/Swadling innovation and my reasons would expose a mechanical difference in the design of the NGF flipper and its relationship to the NGF thread. Having said that, Chess' idea for research on alternative elastics is fair game and very welcome. I am sure that NGF thread was discovered rather than invented by Mason/Swadling and that it must be commercially available. For retrofitting purposes, it would be better to have a smaller gauge than that used for NGF, otherwise NGF thread would work pretty well. Time for some research and experimenting. It won't be the first time for the folks in this great forum. Living in Florida, rubber bands tend to degrade far too quickly and it would be nice to find an elastic that would 1) not degrade and 2) keep consistent elasticity. Alan |
stevemorton New user 56 Posts |
Personally I wouldn't use Super Glue, because the join can become brittle. For this sort of stuff I'd use dental elastic bands (ask your dentist or chemist)
Recently I bought a flipper, (cheaply off Ebay) and it felt very loose, after a few tries it fell to pieces. A few minutes with a jeweller's screwdriver and a new band, and it was fully working again, and still is. Re using elastic thread, I'd love to know the knot involved. Steve |
BanzaiMagic Inner circle 1339 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-09-07 16:28, stevemorton wrote: Simple square is all Mark recommends, perhaps doubled once more for safety sake. |
Joni River New user 37 Posts |
Another tip is to cut slices from a balloon. You can use 3 bands in one flipper coin.It works nice.
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Moondragon1 Regular user Washington state 153 Posts |
Thank you kyle for the tip! Your awesome
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videoman Inner circle 6732 Posts |
Quote:
On Sep 6, 2013, videoman wrote: When I wrote that almost 2 years ago I guess I was feeling a bit uneasy about messing with a very expensive gaff, but I have since come to my senses and realized that there would be no harm in trying and I may even be surprised that it goes more smoothly than expected. Especially since I now own quite a bit of the necessary thread. I've decided it would be silly not to at least try it because I do think I would be happier with the ET. I'll report back after I've had a chance to give it a go. |
inigmntoya Inner circle DC area native, now in Atlanta 2350 Posts |
I've replaced the bands on at least four different flippers and have had no major problems doing so.
The trickiest part is tying the knot with the thread at the desired tightness. You might have to try a couple/few times, but to me it's well worth it given the average shelf-life I've experienced with regular rubber bands and having to dig their rotten remnants out of the grooves. I also have an NGF, and agree that its design definitely makes the overall process easier as there's no disassembly required. Very helpful if you find you need to replace the thread with little time to spare. |
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