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Alex L. Molina New user 54 Posts |
Hello All
Happy Holidays... "It's not what you DO, it's HOW you do it." We've all heard this, surely we all know this to be a wise Philosophy. As an Actor/Filmmaker, my First-Love was & remains Magic (Close-Up/Parlor); in my early years as a Demonstrator at Tannen's, I found myself embracing (still do to this day) a slight "twist" on this Philosophy: "it IS what you do AND how you do it" Magic today should be at the level of Stand-Up Comedy as far as popularity with the mainstream audience; alas, even with the popularity of Blaine/Angel, Magic has indeed not yet reached this level In my experience as a Performer over the past 30+ yrs, I've come to believe that - based on audience response - that the effects I choose to do (strong/visual Magic) matters as much as how I choose to do them (comedic Presentation). IMHO, Magic has a "stigma" in the minds of the average mainstream audience, that of "silly" "childish" & in some cases even "annoying" (LOL) I've found, however, that when such audiences experience a Performer who has obviously put great thought/care into not only their Presentation but also the selection of effects they share, these audiences take with them not only a very rare/unique experience but a newfound respect for Magic. Towards elevating the Art of Magic to the respected level of Stand-Up Comedy today, I believe this to be a paramount consideration. Yall's Thoughts? |
Pakar Ilusi Inner circle 5777 Posts |
Mentalism does it better if you want to be taken seriously.
Yup, here we go...
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
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Alex L. Molina New user 54 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-11-26 07:27, Pakar Ilusi wrote: Hey Pakar Thanks for the reply - not sure if I'm understanding you correctly, do you mean you feel "serious" Mentalism today does not "suffer" from the "stigma" Magic in general does with mainstream audiences as I mention above? I do very few mentalism effects & my presentation is "tongue-in-cheek", so your views on this topic intrigue me, Bro! Btw, Pakar: "here we go" indeed - LOL but I for one will not be "hatin" on ya your comment seems it may be quite valid... |
Pakar Ilusi Inner circle 5777 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-11-26 07:41, Alex L. Molina wrote: Yes, serious Mentalism effects can convert people, it is that strong. Even when I do my blindfold and pendulum act humorously, people still think I have supernatural powers. It is really that strong, Mentalism.
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
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Alex L. Molina New user 54 Posts |
OK, here we go (LOL)...
My personal/Spiritual philosophy dictates much of the Magic I do, & thus feel allowing spec's to believe I have supernatural powers makes me uncomfortable, so I actually go out of my way to assure them as best I can that I do not (although even then some still won't believe you Thoughts on this? |
funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9982 Posts |
One can lean to the spiritual side by offering that all persons have unrecognized or developed Gifts/Givens from the Divine. You have worked all your life in devloping these abilities so that you can help others. "My objective in these demonstration is to make each audience participant more aware of their natural, gifted potential. Some of what you will observe might be called supernatrual by the unaware. Each of you will come to know that there is nothing more natural than allowing your dreams to exceed your grasp."
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
Alex L. Molina New user 54 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-11-26 17:48, funsway wrote: very nice, funsway - as I truly believe we are indeed capable of such "powers" (just we've yet to "evolve" as a "species" to the point of beging fully "realized") I REALLY dig your thinking here |
Pakar Ilusi Inner circle 5777 Posts |
Nice one, funsway...
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
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Ricardo Delgado Loyal user 230 Posts |
I think I still prefer the saying "It's not what you do, it's how you do it".
I know we tend to think there are effects better than others, that are able to get better responses from the audience, however, isn't that because those tricks fit better to the way we present it? For instance: I know that Berglas once did, to prove a point, a vanishing coin on stage, that got a really good response (maybe a standing ovation? I don't remember) and a whole piano vanish that was just ok, not great. just ok. I've seen Tamariz doing things that, if it was done poorly, people wouldn't call it magic (a really funny rope effect). I expect everybody to agree that the "HOW you do it" is REALLY important. But I disagree that the "WHAT you do" have that much importance. I have to say: is not that the choices of effects that go in an act are irrelevant, but I believe that (almost) every trick or effect can get really good reactions from the audience when the presentation fits. |
BarryFernelius Inner circle Still learning, even though I've made 2537 Posts |
I don't think this is an 'either/or' situation. I'd rather think of it in terms of 'both/and.'
It IS WHAT you do, AND It IS HOW you do it. Yes, you can do an exceptionally deceptive trick so poorly that it doesn't get a good response. Of course, that's a bad idea. Yes, you can perform a mediocre trick so well that it gets a great response. But why would you want to settle for that? Instead, why not do an exceptionally deceptive trick so well that it gets a phenomenal response?
"To achieve great things, two things are needed: a plan and not quite enough time."
-Leonard Bernstein |
Michael Kamen Inner circle Oakland, CA 1315 Posts |
It is not what you do.
It is, how did you do it?
Michael Kamen
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BarryFernelius Inner circle Still learning, even though I've made 2537 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-12-06 00:21, Michael Kamen wrote: :) Nice!
"To achieve great things, two things are needed: a plan and not quite enough time."
-Leonard Bernstein |
George Ledo Magic Café Columnist SF Bay Area 3042 Posts |
For a different perspective on this, please check out my column on "Why," here in the Café. You can just click on my signature line below.
That's our departed buddy Burt, aka The Great Burtini, doing his famous Cups and Mice routine
www.georgefledo.net Latest column: "Sorry about the photos in my posts here" |
Lawrence O Inner circle French Riviera 6811 Posts |
George,
I'm a big supporter of the why. In fact I'm a shareholder in an ecommerce company in Europe and I keep reminding the three converging circles of a mail order communication: Why should they buy this Why should they buy it from us, and Why should they buy it now. In magic it seems to me that an act should have a purpose so that we can express Why should they watch magic Why should they watch it with this performer Why should they watch it now. This being said I would respectly argue, in this frame, with your classic alternative is the magic in the props (and the performer only a guide) or is it in the performer and the props are only there for illustration purposes? To me it seems that it is neither and you've probably read me ranting on this. So plsease accept my apologies if you did already. Audience come to see the magic and magic happens in their imaginations. If the magic is with the performer, his character is just a trickster or a magical juggler, if it's in the props he is just a box demonstrator like a vacuum cleaner salesman at the door. I dare to say that magic happens with the audience and this is the reason why good effects which happen in the spectators' hands are so highly appreciated. If the magic is in the props or the performer, there is no possible cognitive dissonance. Magic is in the effect, the recognized impossibility that is proven to be possible without changing the spectators' opinion So Why is this effect impossible Why can this guy prove it to me otherwise Wy should I not change my belief in this being impossible In another post I had a discussion with Pop on the spectator's "what's in it for me". We could agree that it's a plus but I contended (and still do) that for the magic to reach the persons we are triggering it for, they must have "something in it for them" This cold be material like an origami (Michael Close, Michael Weber...) or just an emotion where they feel that the magic was "for them personally". So ultimately the magic is within their emotional world Tommy Wonder used to define a good effect as "an emotion + a conflict + a resolution of the conflict by magic". Please note the important nuance: he didn't say a resolution of the conflict by the magician, and we all know that magic is extremely difficult to define because it only exists in the people's imaginations. Thus the "why" is implicitely answered all along the effect: "because that's interesting for me and I thought it was impossible. Is it "true" or "magic"? Did the performer do something special that I didn't notice or is it really magic? I don't believe that the coins appear from nowhere, but I could see his hand at all time and he had his sleeves rolled up yet three precious sterling silver worth at least a couple of hundred dollars each (if not more) appeared from thin air... and they were real (I could touch them) Thank you for sharing this title (Book of Why) and driving us into reconsideration of what we're doing... and why
Magic is the art of emotionally sharing live impossible situations
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George Ledo Magic Café Columnist SF Bay Area 3042 Posts |
Thanks so much for your thoughts on this. I run into "why" all the time at production meetings, when a director or a tech director, or someone, will home in on a detail about the show and immediately go into "how" mode and totally get away from the discussion at hand. The other night I was doing a preliminary design presentation for Spamalot, and proposed a way to get Tim the Enchanter to come on stage with no visible means of support per a line in the script, and immediately people started talking about the technical details. This was a preliminary design show-and-tell, not a tech meeting. I've gotten very good at stopping this, but I find it very interesting that people will do this so often.
As far as magic, the performer, IMHO, is there to take the audience on a journey through the performer's specialty, just like any other performer. Sinatra once said that the secret to his success was to sing great songs, which was probably a PR statement to make him look "modest." He didn't have just one secret; there were many, and one of them was his personality, especially in later years. People came to see him, to experience him, to listen to him, sure, but also to feel the stuff he was singing about. There was a lot "in it" for the audience. Interestingly enough, when he worked Vegas, most of the showrooms he performed inn were just raised platforms with a curtain in the back. No moving lights, smoke, projections, or any of that stuff. For me, personally, I have to like the performer before I'll spend my time watching or listening to him. Victor Borge was a master at his craft, which was to make people laugh at something normally taken very seriously. i.e., classical music. "Professor Peter Schickele" came in later with his take on PDQ Bach, but he never did anything for me, and I think it's because he focused so much on the music and not on himself. Tina Turner used to knock you over with her energy for the whole concert. Bette Midler's show was all about Bette Midler. For all of them, it was a combination of what, how, and why, and they gave something back to the audience. It was interactive entertainment without computers. This is so different from "magicians" who come across like "hey, look at this," and leave the audience feeling like "who the heck was he, and why is he doing this?" If I were still performing, I would much rather people come to see me --- me --- because they like the overall experience, instead of coming because I was the guy who levitated and then vanished the elephant.
That's our departed buddy Burt, aka The Great Burtini, doing his famous Cups and Mice routine
www.georgefledo.net Latest column: "Sorry about the photos in my posts here" |
Vick Inner circle It's taken me 10+ years to make 1120 Posts |
One of my favorite complements was
"I don't like magic or magicians but I loved you" From a sophisticated, handsome woman after a Birthday Celebration performance last year. While I admire good stand up and think great stand up comedy is amazing, I'd like to see magical entertainment return to a higher level of esteem in the general public's opinion And it will never happen in the USA :-(
Unique, Thought Provoking & Amazing Magical Entertainment Experiences
Illusions By Vick Blog of a real world working magician Magic would be great, if not for magicians |
George Ledo Magic Café Columnist SF Bay Area 3042 Posts |
I think that happens with a lot of fields when the tools to practice the field become so easy to get that people just figure they can get the tools and practice the field with no training. I've seen it happen with desktop publishing, graphic design, interior design, photography, and my own field, theatrical design. You don't need a license to practice any of these, although set designers in professional theater are generally members of IATSE/USAA. Still, a lot of community and college theaters are so used to a set designer being a part-time amateur (who often can't even draw), that they figure all set designers are the same and not worth more than a token stipend. So, for guys like me, it's a matter of educating the clients and getting them to raise their expectations by a factor of about a hundred.
And also to increase their budgets for set design work. I also see this with actors and directors all the time. All it takes to be an actor is memorizing the script, and all it takes to direct a play is following the stage directions in the script. Or so a lot of people seem to think. What I find interesting is that the general public tends to regard movie and TV actors as being "different in stature" from the people they see at the typical local community theater. Which leads me to believe that the public's expectations are different and that they *can* tell the difference.
That's our departed buddy Burt, aka The Great Burtini, doing his famous Cups and Mice routine
www.georgefledo.net Latest column: "Sorry about the photos in my posts here" |
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