Were these guys the "David Copperfields" of the day or THE REAL DEAL Magicians of long ago?
Some say followers of Zoroaster ... But certainly not Criss Angel types ...right?

Are you asking for serious or humorous responses?

I'm open for anything.

As an historical event, I doubt it happened anything like the story.

best,
Sean

My guess is they were more like the ancient world equivalents of Giorgio A. Tsoukalos.

It was my understanding that they were astrologers and not kings. Perhaps the 'gift' they gave the newly born messiah was an important atrological prediction such as, "An overly formal attitude will drive people away. Cultivate a warmer approach to potential clients and customers. You don't have to put on a false front, but you should be a little more approachable. Rivals are attracting much more business because they're able to break the ice quickly. You need to acquire this skill, too. Just because you were raised a certain way doesn't mean you follow these principles in every area of life. The more flexible you are, the more successful you will be."

source: http://www.russellgrant.com

Magi in biblical times referred specifically to Persians that possessed esoteric/occult knowledge. They were not magicians or entertainers, they were practical men with practical and spiritual knowledge

The Magi were, as Trickstar says, Persian spiritualists. But although some people make out that they were odd heathen esoterics, a thorough examination of the Old Testament suggests that they were the same branch of Persians as those who served the kings of Babylon. They didn't just "see a star" and decide on some sort of astrological meaning for it; it was in fact a recognition of a prophecy made by the prophet Daniel during the Israelite exile in Babylon. I'm short of time right now, but I'll dig out the relevant verses later so long as this doesn't get me in trouble for discussing religion on the forum.

It's Christmas time so maybe we can have some leeway? I'd like to know more about the Magi.... always have!!!

If they were Zarathustrians -- certainly supported by many authorities -- they could have been "kings" as well as Magi. The latter came from a religious choice and years of study (and being old and wise). They certainly needed some wealth to make a life work of gathering wisdom and to make such a Biblical journey, and "king" was a fairly loose term back then -- akin to "Baron" in Medieval times.

They issue here is "did they do magic?" as part of their being Magi? Anyone having superior knowledge can be considered as "doing magic" by those who do not understand science. They were certainly Alchemists in its philosophical meaning, and "Ceremonial Magicians" on the spiritual side -- just as Priests of various religions are today. But there is no evidence that Magi performed magic tricks for entertainment or to pretend at having special powers. Wealth plus knowledge makes on "powerful" and there is little need of illusion.

Within their religious belief the coming of Christ was foretold (completely different from Jewish tradition, though) -- and, as Magi would have had scientific interests as well as spiritual.

Studying the life of Zoroaster and the resulting religious practices is a good read, especially since so many religious rituals in Christian churches comes form there rather than Jewish tradition.

So interesting. Such a big event that promotes Billions of Dollars being spent on Gifts each year.

I solved that problem a decade ago by piling all the Christmas loot I WOULD have spent on good friends and relatives who don't need a thing...and instead of the shopping, buying, wrapping, mailing...I buy one cleft Palate Operation thru The Smile Train.

Believe me, it's a Win-Win solution. I highly recommend it as a sensible solution to the hassle and frenzy:

https://secure.smiletrain.org/site/SPage......odxDkAfg

As funsway noted they certainly did not perform magic for entertainment. However, these traditions have always had (for want of better terminology) lesser and greater magics. The greater magic involved their 'scientific' knowledge,knowledge of natural phenomena and "powers of prophesy" - this knowledge is what made them important consultants for kings etc. The lesser magic magic involved much trickery, this was deemed necessary for building belief and confidence in their abilities. In some ways very similar to us 'proving ourselves' in challenge situations i.e. "so you can read minds/do magic etc... go on then, show mw something".

Tom, that is a really beautiful thing to do

Thank you. It allows one to almost become as a Magi, and manifest one lifetime gift to a child and their family. The essence of the season.

There are two main Cleft Palate charities, but they do business in different ways. I like the Smile Train approach because their operating expenses are taken care of by specific corporate support, so 100% of your donations go directly to the program. Another good move on their part is that they don't have a team that skips around the world setting up certain days in certain places for operations....the Smile Train actually sets up, trains and pays for the 3rd worlds hospitals' permanent continual free operations...all the people need to do is get to the hospital with the child. It's generally a 45 minute operation. So simple a cure.

And you get to disengage from the commercial part of the season, so you get to heal a little bit too..

Tom, that's fantastic. It warms my heart to know there are people like you out there.

There's a really interesting documentary available on YouTube about the Star of Bethlehem. The presenter provides some insight into who the Magi were and what they did, what they likely observed in the night sky, and why it was so significant to them (and to all of us as well). It's worth a watch.

Here's the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPHKg0M3mEo