I am working up a routine for body load productions from under a meter square foulard, and I would be grateful for some help on suitable material. It seems to me the grade of silk usually used for magic is too light and transparent for this sort of thing. I need something heavy enough to hang down and not float about, and completely opaque, but retaining the look and luster of silk. I imagine there are heavier grades of silk, but where can one obtain them?

I can get heavier weight silk but often when I make zombie foulard I make a foulard of three layers of 8 momme silk. There are other fabrics that will work but quite honestly nothing is as supple and free flowing as silk.

Richard

Everything that Richard writes above is correct. I do want to add that heavier weights of "China Silk" are available in both 10 and 12 momme. You won't find them at every fabric store, but companies such as 'Oriental Silk' in Los Angeles do sell them in various colors. They will have both the opacity and feel of 'regular 'silks...but denser. You could contact them via phone or other means. Of course, you will have to cut and sew the fabric as they only sell yardage...or you could go to an expert like Richard who can create 'silks' with the correct style hem.

As Richard mentions, nothing beats the flow and luster of pure silk and I would stick with pure silk products!

Regards-
J.Neal

This may shock you! ED RENO used the cheapest material he could find for his foulard! He produced four bowls of water from his 'rag'!

Of course, he also used a sawed off broom stick and a Prince Albert tobacco can (for the houlette)when he did rising cards!

I got this from a Chicago magician (whose name momentarily escapes me) who saw RENO back in the '30s.

He said Ed's props looked like he packed them with a shovel!!!

I agree with Jonathan and Richard! Good silk looks better, handles better and lasts longer!

I haven't seen anyone doing productions from a foulard for ages. I think it may be becoming a "lost art"

OKITO lectured in Chicago (1950) IBM conv. and explained how to produce stuff from a foulard. He was an artist.

One of the things to consider with a foulard production is how you intend to manipulate the foulard. Most performers drape it over one arm, sometimes up to the shoulder, in order to free one hand. It helps if the foulard is not slick, as this will cause it to slip off the shoulder and arm. I have seen some that were a textured fabric, which would grip the fabric of the coat sleeve and keep it in place. I have also seen a small hook sewn to one corner, which is attached to the jacket to hold the foulard in position. I actually prefer the first idea.

I remember the foulard for the old really big Bowl of Water and Double Bowls of Water Productions had a heavy weight sewn in one corner. This enabled the performer to casually toss the corner over his/her shoulder and the foulard would safely stay in place and was easily removed.

Julie

I think (if I'm understanding "youse guys") that you are doing what most magicians I've seen, do.

Most magicians that I've seen do a production from a foulard, do it WRONG. (at least NOT THE WAY THAT OKITO SHOWED ME.

Most will have (for example) the load on their left side (and often the load is HUNG on the coat)NEVER PUT THE WEIGHT OF THE LOAD ON THE COAT. HANG IT ON YOUR BODY.

With the load on your left side, NEVER THROW THE FOULARD OVER THE LEFT SHOULDER! If you do,when your right hand reaches for the load, IT LOOKS LIKE YOU ARE REACHING UNDER YOUR COAT--AND THAT "AINT" VERY MAGICAL!!!!!

If the load is on your left, throw the foulard over your RIGHT shoulder. The RIGHT arm is now concealed under the foulard. The left hand holds its corner and can pull its corner a bit to the LEFT. If you now turn SLIGHTLY to your left, the RIGHT hand is concealed. as it reaches under the LEFT side of the coat, and it can bring the load to the RIGHT, under cover of the foulard. The RIGHT hand can now move away from the body, but under the foulard, and the left hand can now "UNVEIL" THE LOAD which is "away" from the body.

OKITO showed me the "left shoulder/left load" and then scratched his left ear with his right hand. He said: "Very unnatural!"

I have used OKITO's technique for more years than I can count, and not once has someone said, "You took it out from under your coat!" BECAUSE, the load "appeared" away from my body, and the foulard was taken away from the item produced,

I do hope,I've made this clear.

Jack Baker (SILKINI) used the old "drop down" table to produce a BIG bowl of goldfish. Just after he lifted the bowl to release the #2 drape, he would 'unveil' the big bowl WHICH HE WAS STILL HOLDING A B O V E THE TABLE. As he unveiled the bowl,it was still ABOVE THE TABLE TOP, and he set it down about one second aftr it had been uncovered.

THE DEVIL IS IN THE DETAILS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is the sort of detail that I've written up in the book!!!

If everyone on the thread "makes nice", I'll tell you the story of Greg Bordner (Abbott's owner) when he was in high school and was going to prodce a fire bowl. It was spectacular, if premature.

Thank you Mr. Oslund, what a wonderful story. Now I'm going to half to try this.
Shazam
Keith

Yes, the details are important. I used to produce a fire bowl that was dimly held up my left arm until the proper moment. The silk was lofted in the air and the bowl stole.

Old timers sometimes put a small hook to hold one corner of the foulard not the shoulder.

Richard

It appears that Roderick (OP) has (as they used to say about ELVIS) "left the building". So, maybe I wasted my time with my technical writing of the proper wsy to use a foulard when producing a body load.

I was fortunate, at 18, to have OKITO's mentoring. I treasure that experience!!! His "UN" NATURAL expression (and visual demonstration) has guided to a great degree, my thinking throughout my whole life as a performing magician.

I have a picture of Harry Blackstone Senior producing a live goat from a foulard!

As I mentioned above the late Joe Palen (I've remembered his name.) described the very late Ed Reno's production of FOUR bowls of water (from body loads)using a "tatty" square of cambric. The last bowl was produced as Ed stood in the audience and had audience members holding corners of the cloth!

Yes, I fully understand the inadvisability of being 'greedy with a principle", but, apparently, Reno understood how to "get around" that!

I certainly haven't left the building. Just didn't anticipate how quickly replies might accumulate.

Thank you for the wonderful technical stuff. As someone said, foulard productions are becoming a lost art, and this sort of thing needs to be preserved and discussed. My own contribution to the all important details is that when the object comes into view it should be at the end of the outstretched hand, not held close to the body. This creates the illusion that it "appeared" and did not come from the clothing. Not remotely logical, but magic never is. It is one of the little tricks spectator's brains play which makes magic happen.

Part of my purpose in putting the question was the point someone has picked up about the way silk slides off the arm when draped there. I haven't heard of the hook before. I was thinking of putting beads in each corner so they could be wedged into the space between the arm and the chest.

Can we now have the promised fire bowl story?

Happy to have you return!!! --We're a "fast" crew here!!! hee hee

Yes, we think alike. See my note about the produced item should appear AWAY from the body, which creates the "illusion" that you mention. (The 'MAGIC' only happens in one place: the mind of the spectator. I've been "preaching" THAT for eons, in lectures all over North America, including the SAM national convention (NYC--1978)ABBOTTS GET TOGETHER, and the Magic Castle.

If you try OKITO's "method" you will find it is much superior to what you usually see "magicians" do. If you use OKITO's concept, you wont need hooks or weights or ? as the foulard never gets near the "load side shoulder".

I've used a 36" silk to produce a (spring) parasol for many years. Since it covers the right arm and hand which does the "quick draw" steal, it doesn't matter if it slides off the right arm, as the parasol is already produced.

Reread my post and you will note that I made the point that the produced item must appear AWAY from the body.

I agree that foulard productions are seldom seen, mainly, I believe, because no one knows the correct technique. Throwing the foulard over the LEFT shoulder (hooks or not) and reaching under it merely creates the 'illusion' of reaching under the coat.

I'll add the fire bowl story in another post. I wrote it up yesterdy, but, for some reason it wouldn't "transmit".

O

I'll try again next week!!!!!!!!! I've written it twice and it still "aint here"!

As Pete Biro says: "STAY TOONED"

COMING...NEXT WEEK...IN THIS THEATER: "The red hot story of Greg Bordner and the Abbott Fire Bowl"

OK---FOR THE THIRD TIME~! I shall endeavor to tell the story of Greg Bordner and the Abbott Fire Bowl.

Greg Bordner, now the owner of Abbott's Magic Co. (COLON, MICHIGAN) told me this a few years ago.

When he was a teenager, he was booked for a Sunday School affair. Fire bowls were "in fashion" then. He had one. Heqq, his father owned the company!

"Backstage" (Ha! That means behind the piano) he set his act. The last thing to set was the Fire Bowl. Abbott's bowl "operated" by chemical reaction

Once loaded and set, it had to be kept "on edge" (ONCE IT WAS IN A LEVEL POSITION, THE CHEMICALS WOULD MIX, AND SCIENCE WOULD TAKE OVER. Greg set the bowl, and hung it on a "hook" under his sport coat.He had a foulard in one hand, and was standing "backstage". (see previous definition!) The "MC" was introducing him. He looked down and saw that his shoelace was untied. He bent down to tie his shoe.

YUP!!! He set a world's record for "escaping" from his jacket!

That is the most famous story with Abbott's Fire Bowls. I have heard that story over 40 years ago. They never mentioned who the magician was, I did not know it was the famous Greg Bordner. I have traveled to Abbott's hundreds of times, maybe thousands, and Greg always served me well. The story never came up between us.

I actually thought he was telling me the truth, when he told me that he did not perform magic. Whenever I asked to see magic trick, he always refused, and said he did not do magic. So he never demoed a trick for me. Not really giving much thought to it, as Abbott's was mainly a mail order company.

The last person to demo anything for me their was the late great Neil Foster, and for close-up Gordon "Mike" Miller when he was around during the week. On my 1st few visits in 1964, I was greeted by the famous Duke Stern, what a character and nice guy.

So, I was very surprised when the Trailways Bus or Grayhound Tour Bus would pass through town and stop at the Magic Capital of World, and Greg Bordner would perform the Royal Magic Cups and Balls and other Royal line of tricks for the tourist.

Hi Bill! There's a very good reason why "we" always "steered" people to the Royal counter!

Howsomever (there'a a "colloquial" for you! I am sworn to secrecy by the "brotherhood" of magic dealers! (Ya hafta be "with it" to be "duked in"!--Those who have "travelled in the east" will understand!

Bill! I just returned from a "meeting" with a magic dealer. We discussed the "ROYAL" counter. I'll PM you with an explanation!!! (hee hee)

Best Wishes!

O