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Sealegs Inner circle The UK, Portsmouth 2596 Posts |
I wonder if the Café members can help.
I’m looking for inspiration for routines, plots or even effects that fit specifically to a theme of lying or being deceitful. I realise that all magic effects are about lying in some form... but usually the deceit we overtly admit to using is still kept covert. I’m looking for something that lends itself to a presentation that deals with lying or being deceitful as the overt premise of the routine effect or trick.. Here’s the catch though….. I don’t want any mentalism or mental magic type of effects. The reason for this isn’t that I don’t like mental magic and mentalism but rather that as mentalism readily lends itself to presentations of lying and telling the truth. So, I am already in possession of a plethora of possibilities to explore within that genre. Non mental effects pose a more difficult challenge though. Any suggestions would be welcomed. As there is no cabaret/stand-up magic section on the Café I’m hoping this section is the most appropriate one in which to make this post. Cheers
Neal Austin
"The golden rule is that there are no golden rules." G.B. Shaw |
jay leslie V.I.P. Southern California 9498 Posts |
Pom Pom pole. about how you know something to be true even when someone shows you something different.
T&R the classic patter. "what you see is an illusion, it isn't really happening" Sitting with me at dinner. Unly 20 percent of what comes out of my mouth is the truth, the rest is made-up funny stuff........ you DO believe me. right?
Jay Leslie
www.TheHouseOfEnchantment.com |
Bill Hegbli Eternal Order Fort Wayne, Indiana 22797 Posts |
In case you missed it, the main category is Stage, Platform, and Parlour, which should fall within your Cabaret/stand-up areas. And as you are looking for a prop, I believe you are in the correct topic.
I don't think this would be considered a mental prop, but the old "Lie Detector" prop may be what you are looking for. It has 3 lights usually on a box. The lights blink and/or the box peeps whenever a lie stated by the performer or spectator. It allows a large variety of presentations for the creative performer. These have come an gone over the years, I don't know if anyone is marketing one presently. It was very popular in the U.K. as well. Harry Stanley use to sell them as well. Check around with places like Davenports and see if they can supply you with a source if they don't sell them. |
Julie Inner circle 3936 Posts |
Hello Sealegs,
How about a Spirit Bell or Spirit Light? Julie |
Sealegs Inner circle The UK, Portsmouth 2596 Posts |
Jay; The torn and restored newspaper is just the sort of thing I was looking for… one of those ‘why didn’t I think of that’ answers… It’s a non mental effect that lends itself to having a lying presentation laid onto it. So thanks for that one.
Bill and Julie, Thanks for suggesting the lie detector/spirit bell/spirit light, it's a natural fit and a great suggestion… and I had already had this as one of the items for this project… great minds . I’m also looking at re-writing a selection process I once used that eliminates audience members based on the lies that they’ve told over the years. Hopefully getting down to just a few to then use in an effect. So it’s not just effects (although more suggestions are going to be warmly welcomed) any other presentational applications of lying in the context of a magic show, without it being mentally/mentalism based, would be great too. Thanks in advance for your time and thoughts
Neal Austin
"The golden rule is that there are no golden rules." G.B. Shaw |
murf Loyal user San Antonio, TX 264 Posts |
"Truth To Tell" in Barrie Richardson's "Theater of the Mind" might be of interest to you, despite the source. Kreskin's presentation of Max Maven's Kurotsuke is also a really excellent rouitne based on detecting a lie.
Murf |
Sealegs Inner circle The UK, Portsmouth 2596 Posts |
Thanks murf… I have a version of Maven’s Kurotsuke mapped out for the project and in fact it incorporates the lie detector idea/prop that Bill and Julie have mentioned. It’s great to see we are all thinking along the same lines… it’s really helpful to know that with others generously making suggestions that I have plans for I probably have the basis for a good routine.
I knew that Barrie Richardson had a different version of the Kurotsuke effect but was unsure of the name of it so thanks for the reference. I’ll look it up. Anyone have any thoughts regarding anything maybe a bit further from the lie detector and mental approach... like Jay’s excellent idea of the torn and restored newspaper? t’s certainly seems to be a challenge. I have also added, to the list of potential effects, various street con’s to the idea of lying…. the lie being that you’re told you can win (at the 3 Shell Game or Find the Lady) when in fact you can’t; and you then demonstrate (without explaining the working of course) that you can’t possibly win.
Neal Austin
"The golden rule is that there are no golden rules." G.B. Shaw |
Bill Hegbli Eternal Order Fort Wayne, Indiana 22797 Posts |
Sealegs, I have uploaded a video of a local magician at the famous Snickerz Comedy Club here in Fort Wayne, Indiana. They broadcast every week their program Night Shift on television of the guest comedians that appear each week on their stage. He uses the lie detector and combined it with his magic. The plunger routine is Stephen Bargatze's from his lecture and a version of Daryl's Rope Routine.
This is how I interpreted your original question, the Lie Detector going off during the delivered patter interacting with your audience and spectators. |
Sealegs Inner circle The UK, Portsmouth 2596 Posts |
Bill thanks for posting the video clip.
It is similar to the use I already had planned for it. I believe this is the classic way the lie detector is used. There are a few routines published using this prop which I intend to investigate too. As I pointed out, mental magic/mentalism effects lend themselves to the lying theme and even though the entertainment and meat of a routine using a lie detector prop is more to do with the dressing than in the effect, such routines inevitably get built around a mentalism based effect. (as in this clip) Appreciating the help and still welcoming any more suggestions.
Neal Austin
"The golden rule is that there are no golden rules." G.B. Shaw |
Bill Hegbli Eternal Order Fort Wayne, Indiana 22797 Posts |
Sealegs, I understand your point, but what I was attempting to show is the comments not made in regards to a trick. Like when Andy asked about she always telling the truth to your husband. I believe this is where the value of the device lies. Interaction with a spectator and the audience. Note when he made a comment about a great audience.
It is this kind of inaction that gets the really big laughs. It is unrelated and unexpected comments. As in my original post above, "It allows a large variety of presentations for the creative performer." In other words, seemingly thinking on your feet and interaction with the spectator and audience. It also depends how one looks at a magic trick. Early on Andy did read the girls mind, but in the Stephen Bargatze's Plunger piece, it was more of a telepathic link of transmitting thoughts from one to another. That is not mentalism, but science. It can be a fine line, but it is all how a performer sets up the scenario. Just Chance is another way to play the lie detector machine. Guessing which envelope the money is in is gambling, not mentalism. Anyway, that was my point in offering an approach to your original question. |
Sealegs Inner circle The UK, Portsmouth 2596 Posts |
Thanks Bill, I appreciate you taking the trouble to help me out with this.
We were actually already on the same page with this but it might have seemed like I was at crossed purposes with you because I've always thought that 'comments not made with regard to the trick’ but with regard to the general banter with an assisting spectator was the usual/standard way that a lie detector prop/device is used! That’s what I meant when I said the entertainment and meat of a routine using the lie detector has more to do with the dressing than the actual effect. Your point is well taken, has been well made and is appreciated
Neal Austin
"The golden rule is that there are no golden rules." G.B. Shaw |
Bill Hegbli Eternal Order Fort Wayne, Indiana 22797 Posts |
Nice of you to say, but this was the 1st time I seen the Lie Detector used in this way. Most of the time it is as you said, do a trick and use the machine to find the answer. Of course you travel much more then I do, so your exposer is more rounded to say the least.
I hope you find/discover or create what you are trying accomplish with a non-mental routine. You did not say, but is your idea even around a magic trick effect? |
Sealegs Inner circle The UK, Portsmouth 2596 Posts |
Bill, As I mentioned earlier in my response to ‘murf’s’ post, the use I have a Kurotsuke type of effect in mind for the Lie detector… so yes the idea is to use it around a magic effect.
Mentally based effects, such as this Kurotsuke type of plot, are rather easy fits for a lying theme. I’ve actually only ever seen about 4 performers use the lie detector prop idea... and although you have me as saying that, most of the time it’s 'used to do the trick and find the answer', I have, in fact, never seen it used to serve this function. Everyone I’ve seen that’s used a lie detector has employed it as a comedy device where the comedy comes from the device going off in response to what the performer is talking about... and especially those seemingly innocent statements that specifically aren't connected with seeking the answers to the trick that’s being performed. Once this avenue has been exploited the performers I’ve seen have largely then put the prop aside and concluded the routine without it... only to have it unexpectedly ‘interrupt’ the performer later in their show which makes for a nice call back to the routine. Much as in the clip you posted.
Neal Austin
"The golden rule is that there are no golden rules." G.B. Shaw |
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