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danielluskmagic New user 97 Posts |
So you have to travel. Not just a little out of your local area but lets say a flight, hotel, ,taxi, car rental, etc.
How do you bill for this. Do you book everything, estimate on taxis etc, and bill before the event? Or do you bill for performance and travel after the event with a final number? Do you charge a flat per diem for hotel and food? Do you bill for meals on the road? I am starting to travel more out of state and looking for a discussion on what you do so I can come up with a streamline plan each time. Thank You, Daniel |
Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
I have always been a fan of simplicity. Make it as easy as possible for the client to say yes. I ALWAYS give them a no frills price. One price and I will be there. This way it is not up to them to worry about how much a hotel costs, or where to book it or anything like that. Same with the airfare, or anything else. Give them one price, let them just be happy you are going to show up and spend the rest of the time doing what needs to be done with other things.
This is what works for me. Your mileage may vary.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
Kevin Ridgeway V.I.P. Indianapolis, IN & Phoenix, AZ 1832 Posts |
What Danny stated is good advice overall. Now to give another viewpoint: It varies from market to market. The fair market for grounds acts wants to see an all inclusive price. They want to know what you're gonna cost them. Other markets: grandstand act at fairs, high end festivals, some corporate, etc you can charge travel above your performance fee. Some will even have a person do the trav booking.
At the end of the day, one will have to learn it as they go AND you need to do what is profitable and accept to you.
Living Illusions
Ridgeway & Johnson Entertainment Inc Kevin Ridgeway & Kristen Johnson aka Lady Houdini The World's Premier Female Escape Artist www.LadyHoudini.com www.livingillusions.com |
Mindpro Eternal Order 10586 Posts |
Some great advice here from some pros who know. It should also be considered as Kevin eluded to that it is often very dependent on your performance markets. Corporate may be different than cruise ships, colleges different that schools, fairs & fests different than trade shows, and so on. As I always advise, first and foremost know your markets. Know them inside out, how they work, what is normal, what is acceptable and what is out of bounds, and so on.
I myself for most of the markets I serve have always found one inclusive price to best best for everyone. I am sure my expenses are covered, the booking client pays one price upfront with no worries or concern for extras, additions or hidden costs, and I retain control which is always important in any business transaction. Plus no one knows my needs and travel preferences more or better than me. Less to potentially go wrong, and I can use my preferred services and vendors. I typically use the same limo services, the same airlines, the same car rental companies (2 different ones I prefer) and same for preferred lodging. It also allows me to gain travel points, bonuses, incentives, and VIP status and priviledges. Last week I traveled 6200 miles. Because I used my own vendors I received all of the benefits. Now there are exceptions which I will gladly accept if I feel they understand my needs and do this sort of thing regularly, as entertainers travel needs are often much different from the typical business traveler or casual traveler. |
danielluskmagic New user 97 Posts |
This question comes to light because I have a new client that is hiring for multiple events. Many are the same setup, time, show, etc. But the cost can change so much. The last time the plane ticket was close to $900. This time it is $400. Same with the hotel. $100 last time, $250 this time. So it keeps changing. Should I submit a different all in one price each time or a standard performance fee invoice and then after the event a second travel invoice that will have the pricing of just travel which will vary. This client has no problem paying any expenses. I understand the fair needing an all in one price and totally agree.
Any other thoughts on stream lining this? |
charliecheckers Inner circle 1969 Posts |
I am not in a position to provide advice, but do find this topic very interesting and informative - so I thank Danielluskmagic for initiating the thread and all who have posted thus far. Discussions like this is what make the tricky business section so interesting.
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MrHyde Special user 810 Posts |
Daniel, I'll echo Danny here.
A member of my mastermind group told me a few years ago that I was too hard to book. Since then I've worked hard on refining down what I do and making the booking process easier. I have a client who books me for 12 -13 two day assignments each year. I charge them the same all inclusive fee where ever in the country it is. (And Australia is a big place.) Sometimes I make more, sometimes a bit less. A bit like your quoted fares, one city might be $500 one way and another $120. This gives me the flexibilty to go 5 Star Executive Floor when I want or find a cheap dive. I can stay longer if I want, organise other meetings and jobs, earn flyer points, use flyer points. The client loves it as they know exactly how much they are up for when they book. It also helps me as they pay a hefty deposit up front, up to 12 months in advance, which well covers any outgoings I make and then the balance is paid 30 days BEFORE the assignment. This is for direct bookings. |
Mindpro Eternal Order 10586 Posts |
I agree as this also has many other benefits as in the corporate market, which Mr. Hyde may be speaking, it allows them to plan and budget you into their plans and budget in advance, often securing you for a year and as I've done before a two year deal in advance.
Trade shows can also be similar. When you do this regularly you know your expenses and costs quite well and often allow for such variances. Touring can often be the same way. |
danielluskmagic New user 97 Posts |
Hmmmm... This is really getting me to think. I guess I am just scared of the huge flucations. My standard saying was, "I find the best values and travel as cheep as I can for you. I spend the travel money as it is my own." That was my reason for a travel bill that was to the dollar basically of what it cost for just that trip. I might be stressing over something I should not for this client. They are fortune 500 and I am sure have no issue with it. I am just working on cultivating it into something that hopefully will be a big deal later.
SO LETS GET REAL. What are some numbers I need to be considering. I mean I need to consider NY hotels and Kentucky hotels. Tickets from one side of the country to two states over. What are you charging for just travel? PM if you don't want to put numbers on here but any help would be great. |
Mindpro Eternal Order 10586 Posts |
This is why one price does not fit all. Much of this depends on, as I often speak about, on if you are serving consumer performance markets or professional performance markets. I'm assuming you're speaking of professional markets. I suggest you quote on a per show basis or if multiple shows a per contract basis.
Before you ever quote a price you must gather the needed info. This includes location, date(s), length of performances, number of performances and other pertinent information. If it's in New York you quote accordingly based on NY costs. If it's in Kentucky you quote on KY prices. If it's in the city allow $150-$200 per night for hotel. If it's outside the city or out in the boonies $100 is usually sufficient. There are a few exceptions like resort or tourist areas during certain times of the year, but they are the exception to the rule. Same for airfare. As soon as you know the city, you should have a quotable idea. For example I was just contacted to do a show in September in Michigan. I know coach airfare from Las Vegas to Chicago or Detroit is generally in the $400 ballpark. I would allow $400-$450 in my quote for airfare allowance, plain quick and simple. When you work nationally or on the road, knowing this information is no different than knowing the price of a gallon of milk, a case of water, a pizza or anything else. I think you are stressing over things that maybe you shouldn't. When you operate at the level of a national entertainer, the clients expectations and understandings are that of this level. Many performers, especially magicians, think only from the low-end or local perspective. Anytime you make the transition to regional or national (or international) your mentalities, operational procedures and perceptions must make the transition with you. Sometimes you will find a corporate client that has their own in-house travel department or resource and prefer that they handle it in-house. This too is fine when it happens. Some may ask for separate quotes for your show and then for your travel expenses as they may come out of two different budgets. They usually will specifically ask for this. This too is an exception to the rule. Other than this, simply encompass everything and quote accordingly. |
Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
You do not have to give instant quotes. Once you are a national act it does not come down to being the first guy to answer the phone. It is about so much more.
Take your time. Make darn sure you get it right. Don't take forever, but DO take the right amount of time to give them the best value.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
Mindpro Eternal Order 10586 Posts |
Quote:
On Jun 29, 2014, danielluskmagic wrote: I'm not sure this is the professional image you should be wanting to project. It sounds quite "bottom-feederish" to me and may be seen so in professional circles. If you are dealing with professionals they are seeking to deal with other professionals, peers, equivilents. Most professionals or executives would never have this mentality. Also using such words as "cheap", "best values", is not positive or encouraging. And then saying you'd be doing as if it's your own" is basically saying you are cheap. There there is also the related mindset and perception of "if he travels so cheaply, maybe his show and services are also cheap?" Many negative connotations from this sentence and mentality you are using. I get what you're trying to project, but that may not be the way it's being perceived. Maybe I could see it possibly if while during your conversation THEY bring up budgetary concerns, concern for travel expenses, etc.(and even then I would not say it as you have with words as cheap and negative connotations) but saying like you are may have a negative affect. My guess is that you come from the kids/family market or gospel magic working in consumer markets, and now trying to work this opportunity in a professional market. I do not say this negatively, but I regularly see this in such performers and those I work with as they are learning to work or transition to new markets, levels and mentalities. In consumer markets this "value" approach is more common and may be more of a factor, but not as much it the festival or corporate markets you may be considering. |
Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
I am not a cheap act, I do not travel cheap.
These are the reason I do not justify my price.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
danielluskmagic New user 97 Posts |
Mind Pro - Thanks for the info. This is all very helpful.
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