I have to say that I didn't want to hijack Kevins thread so I put this here.

What is so "powerful" about having a string of people you don't know telling you this is good? I know when we get video submissions we hate them as do many agents. I never understood what better proof there can possibly be done han simply showing what you do and showing an audience enjoying it. One or two people bragging obviously solicited or an entire audience just laughing and clapping and having a grand old time. Which is more "powerful" in the end?

Often they come off as nothing more than filler. I know it is conventional wisdom and they do have a place. But I think too many overestimate their impact.

It's this dumified proceedings these days. I do think this mostly comes from the guru-types. You are right for as long as I can remember, just seeing and hearing the reactions of an audence in a video was more than sufficient - it was real in real-time as it happened (unless there was some tricky editing), it was included, implied and accepted as the real thing. That's truly what a buyer wants. Now today, we have dumified the same element. Today, hearing it and seeing it is not enough, but now we have to have an "actuality" as it's called in the broadcasting and media business, of them looking directy at the camera (like a deer in headlights) and blatantly saying their words of testimonials. It is crazy stupid.

The problem I have is they are sooooo unnnatural and unbeliveable AND we (planners, agents, bookers, producers and promoters, etc.) know that it is all staged and manufactured and staged to some degree. Someone is off camera with a mic and camera and they were given instructions of either what to say, or "just say something to the affect of..." or at the best they say their own words which is still usually uncomfortable, choppy, their eyes don't know where to look and it is almost always edited to some degree to get rid of aas, ahs, stutters, pauses, etc.

If you can't get real-world, natural, implied testimonials, you should be focusing on the real problem rather than all of the time, coordination, uncomfortableness and efforts that go into making these manufactured testimonials. It reminds me of the first years of MTV. Videos were absolutely horrible, bad production value, absolutely terrible interviews and so on.

To me, I always preferred and had the absolute best luck, without a doubt, with the implied testimonials in real show footage, accompanied with maybe one, two or three (the rule of threes) visual quotes credited to the proper person with narraation (at the end of the video) supported by letters of testimonials or references either in our promo on on our web sites.

Why force something that many (even if it's only 50%) find off-putting or offensive? I was at a booking convention recently and a buyer was talking to myself and another agent/producer explaining "why do they have to distroy the flow of their demo by dropping in these created taped testimonials? It breaks up momentum, distroys fluency, and often discredits the demo and even the performer and their performance. Seems the only one being convinced is the performer." I laughed hysterically.

They may have been a bit more impactful when only one or two top performers had them, but now it's so common it has lost it's effect, impact and uniqueness. Plus many now are aware of the Joel Bauer/Benji Bruce method which take this even to a lower level.

I still content to this day - give me a real three minute video of killer live performance material. If I want more I'll ask for it, and if I want it edited fancily I'll ask for it or do it in house as I need for my clients.

I think it depends on the type of show.

People are like cattle, they like to do what others are doing. When they see five cars outside one restaurant and only one across the street, they assume the busier place is better. Maybe the same works with testimonials. I used to send out pages of reproduced letters from people. I'll bet I haven't even asked for one in a decade.

I think if you are doing fundraisers, for example, and you have evidence of solid profit, a testimonial is great. That is not just a matter of personal opinion, it's fact. On the other hand, having video of 30 moms saying your show was fun may be overkill and IMO reeks of "I did this because I was put on the spot". It might even detract because I am one who does not like being put on the spot.

It is because, “planners, agents, producers and promoters” don’t use the same set of eyes that normal people do.
Those booking directly, or someone out looking on their own, doesn't have an agency or a trained buyer to turn to.
Even when they use someone else to book the show for them, they need assurances from ‘like’ people.

We already know what the magician or his agent speaking for him would say about hiring him.
Having someone that has nothing to gain, speak for you is about as powerful as it gets.

Compared to that innocent little ole lady, being trained to hire professionals or having years and years of experience,
means very little when you getting paid to say it.

I agree that a shot of the audience just laughing and clapping and having a good time is the best, but it's not always enough.

Yes, Joel uses it. He has thousands of people speaking for him. But there is no question that it works very well for him.

Tom

Testimonials may also speak to the overall buying experience. For example, I offer library shows. Kids having a great time is essential, but my client (a librarian) is also concerned about educational component, promptness, appropriateness, and ease of doing business. All that said, I agree with Danny, that when I see some material from performers - the testimonial component has been a turn off. I think it is really important that we have people here keeping us in check and keeping it real when it comes to marketing and promotional material. Danny always does so, and I thank him.

Tom you are absolutely wrong. Planners need a video the little d lady can watch. THAT IS the point. Those testimonials are almost always without fail set up and when one starts everyone knows what will be said. Somehow some way by coincidence it is the exact Sam claims made in the sles pitch! What a coincidence!

The planner needs to sell to the uninitiated. That is their job. All hat is why a huge percentage of planners edit out testimonials.

If yku think somehow that seeing the show being sold and watching every audience member having fun is not enough to sell it and then the testimonials come on and people say "well I wasn't sure till Greg from Omaha who I have no idea who he even is, started his obviously coaxed testimonial. THEN I was sold for sure.", I submit button hat is based more in hope than expectation.

If seeing the video does not do it then the problem lies somewhere other han not having enough testimonials. I doubt one job has everything been lost for a lack of testimonials and I know for a face many are lost because of them.

There is a happy mid point and they are not all bad. Deut they are not as needed d as everyone seems to have think.

Charlie you are righ and the overall experience is often dictated prior to the viewing of any video. All that needs to be dealt with separately.

ALL testimonials are planned. Who in their right mind would put up a bad one.

That's why the not-so-good ones are the most convincing at times. It’s a way for some buyers to strip away all the hype and editing.
Being asked to say it doesn't take away from the fact that they did say it.

Still I agree this type marketing may not be for everybody but it does certainly work for some.
I thought Kevin using both shots from the audience and the testimonials was good a good idea.

I’ve never been a big fan of Joel using his many videos to persuade people but I’m not about to disagree with his ability to convince people.
For some it works. And as said, much depends on the type show you selling.

Tom

In my opinion, I think magicians are always looking for more marketing ideas and from my experience, many magicians would be better served putting together a really original show or doing something different. I am not saying this applies to all magicians, but to me, marketing becomes easier when you are selling something unique and different than all the other acts. It takes more work, creativity to do it, but I think it pays off in bookings and will get you talked about more. I think that national media or even local media appearances have more impact than testimonials and I would use them more than lots of random people saying how wonderful you are, unless that person is famous or well known in the market you are after.

I happen to agree that testimonials are over used by many.

i think however there is a place for them and a way to use them.

on my site that is dedicated to my school shows I have both a few video testimonials from Principals and dozens of quotes from principals, teachers, and district superintendants.

they are the ones other schools will want to hear from. there is the name of the school and location as well. this makes it easy for the other schools to contact and follow up to check up on how the show really was.

but I also have several videos as well show casing routines and high points of the show.

i think when applied with several forms of testimonials it helps make it stronger.

especially when you are dealing with a specific market.

just my thoughts on this.

sam

I can only speak to rigorously tested RESULTS... using testimonial proof waaaaaaaaaay out-performs not having them by miles.

I am curious as to what riggerous tests were performed and the comparison methodology used to claim it waayyyyyy out performs not using them.

I am speaking of RESULTS also.

And testimonial proof contained within the video is what I am speaking about SPECIFICALLY. Not the concept of testimonials in general. As I stated they have a place. Just not the place you generally see them.

I would be interested in the rigorous tests, as well.

Look at the success of sites like yelp. They are nearly all based on reviews and testimonials.

They work. People line them.

On yelp they are written reviews and not videos - but the public generally likes and trusts testimonials. They help sell.

Look at infomercials. Talk about canned and hokey. Yet they help sell big time.

My OWN Rigorous Testing... Did many, many, many, many A/B Tests as well as just the natural evolution of my marketing over the years as well as all those I have served over the years... testimonials have always out-performed not having them hands down. (Duh...) People DO like 'proof' for the same reason you asking me for mine. - See how that works?

I personally Tested with and with out written, audio and video and under different constraints and circumstances. - I like other-people's 'studies', but I wanted to see for myself, so I test and test again with massive action and implementation. - I'm weird that way.

I DID fine that they are most powerful after you have moved into the relationship process, but they DO and Have worked in the relationship and trust building process as well.

Again, just my experience and of those I have helped is all... love the discussion. Thanks!

Hope that helps.
~ D

Haha, I am the same way. Test, test and then test some more. Testimonials have a place, but it seems not often how entertainers choose to use them. Testimonials (and reviews) are a weird thing. Yes, they do provide social proof, however I have found there is such thing as too much and overkill at which they become less effective or lose their effectiveness and credibility.

There are certain places, used and applications as pointed out by others in this thread that they can work well or be beneficial or more impactive than in other uses. One size does not fit all.

But also beware of how they can become misleading or misrepresentative. Just because others praise something does not mean you will feel the same way or that you are seeking the same use, application or needs as those giving the testimonials. For example how many times have each of us here on the Cfae been sucked in by raving review, glowing testimonials and something being "the best", "the greatest" or "the next best thing" on long threads, only to purchase it ourselves and be completely disappointed? It was the very same social proof that sucked us in, and yet we ended up not feeling the same way or finding the same results or benefits.

Also testimonials can work against you, I have seen it happen personally. If someone new, less credible or less experience makes a raving testimonial, it almost always ends up falling short of your own expectations. Typically you do not know the person(s0 making the testimonial and their legitimacy and credibility to do so. So it also comes down to who is offering the testimonial, their position and their needs and expectations as it pertains to the results.

Tom offers a different perspective. Testimonials are intended for the potential buyer, regardless if it's an agency, agent planner, mom, producer or school volunteer. Sure some testimonials could be tailored to a target recipient, but they are typically perceived the same way by all intended.

I recently sat with a relative that was looking for entertainment for two events a youth group picnic and possibly her son's upcoming birthday party. She wanted my thoughts on those she was considering. We sat together and for 45 minutes checked out promotional materials sent, viewed web sites and videos. Her views and perceptions were almost identical to mine. Sure I had some perspective beyond hers on a professional level, but before I even offered my thoughts I asked her and husband their thoughts. They were same things as I saw and thought. Some interesting points they made (most that I agree with) was that she complained there were too many interviews (testimonials) in several of the videos, most of the testimonials did not provide enough info for her to contact them to learn more about their experience, she said she would have rather had references than testimonials. The husband was even more skeptical as to the testimonials and if they were legit as they all seemed staged or prompted.

Sure you can say I look at it form a agent's point of view, but agents are also consumers, typically on a double level. We have to feel comfortable about an act, but we must also know that our client must be comfortable and pleased just as much, maybe even more.

Approaches may vary slightly from consumer market to professional markets which again should be dictating everything you do - your marketing, materials demos, and of course if you choose to use the, your testimonials.

Also entertainers forget that your demos may be looked at along with or in conjunction to others, which I have found is rarely a factor when creating and producing their videos. This is a crucial element that is typically not considered or realized.

Mindpro, My point is, booking agent people have a vested interest in selling the act. They are standing on one side of the fence.
They want everything to be as professional as possible, so they prefer the handheld video shots be left out.
They are getting paid to speak for the client, the performer.

But if you look around, most magicians don’t book shows through agents. They do their own marketing. They are the chief cook and bottle washer as they say.
They market directly to the end user, and they don’t have another voice sitting there speaking for them other than past customers.

As for as tests, you can always put it to the common sense test: As a buyer, wouldn’t you trust those using the product over those selling it? I know I would.



Dean, I can remember just a few years back you saying in a group discussion that video would soon play a big part in marketing.
That if we didn’t get prepared for it, we would be left behind. You were right.

For those that don’t believe handheld video has changed the world, go over to facebook and see for yourself that more than half the posts there are about videos.
Un-professional video is the norm nowadays. It’s accepted and it’s much more believable.




Tom

Tom you don't perform magic for money or book it so saying anything changed the world is sort of funny from you.

Dean you have not described anything but anecdotal evidence. You have shown absolutely NOTHING to prove anything LOL. Just a lot of slogans.

Again TESTIMONIALS have a place. I have not stated they are useless.

I guess you guys believe that a picture is not worth a thousand words any more huh?

I always ask potential clients where they found me or got my name. Once I know I then ask more questions. In those conversations people mention YELP all the time now - all the time. Comes up high in search, and people read the testimonials (at least some). Then they in many cases do what we all hope for - they make an inquiry call.

Testimonials in video are great IMO as long as they are peppered through and short/sweet and look authentic and back up the written narraration.

That is a fantastic story but not what we are talking about. YELP is not what I am saying a word about.

I agree - that Yelp is a totally different type of endorsement and negative reviews are just as welcome as positive ones.

To add another component to the original discussion, I believe a video testimonial presented as an optional proof source on a web page is very different than a video testimonial that is embedded into a promotional video.