I have recently become fascinated with the "fast and loose" kind of effect and its possibility for a mentalist prediction effect. I am 77, mainly a locally performing hobbyist mentalist, and while still strong and intellectually active, I am not salivating to take on an effect that (say) takes three years to master!

So, I am asking three questions. 1) How long does it take to become proficient in the Fast and Loose genre? 2) In terms of learning curve, is there much of a difference between the on-the-table version, and the in-the-hands versions of Strivings and DeSouza? 3) What other question(s) should I have asked?

Thanks,

George Hunter

The sleight of hand involved isn't very difficult. Just a few hours work to get the moves. Learning curve is about the same for in the hands or on the table. Just settle on a routine and get the patter down. IMO, patter is what makes a Fast and Loose routine. In the hands or on the table moves are just a personal preference.

Hi George--
I agree with NicholasD as far as learning curve goes. But it might take you some time to create a routine that works for you. I learned the moves (many years ago) quickly, but it was not until years later that I polished my routine that plays for a participant. I'm still polishing, in fact

You should look into School for Scoundrels materials. The book and DVD are considered the gold standard for this effect.

Good luck!
Jay

I'll second School for Scoundrels. Pop Haydn's Fast and Loose routine is great. http://scoundrelsstore.com/product/fast-......in-scam/

John

Just $15:

Http://www.popsmagic.com/store/p59/Fast_......oad.html

Pop's routine is a bargain. It has a fast learning curve. Chef Anton had some great stuff on there. Get that and pop's chain while you are at it. Makes the routine easier and it's a classy looking item.

Which routine does the work in the hands instead of the table.

The Dennie Flynn routine in Nick Trost's "Expert Gambling Tricks." I don't mind an in the air arrangement, but the betting should be done after it is laid on the table. The versions in which the chain is arranged and held in the hands as people choose would never fly on the street, and I don't think is very interesting to the spectators--I doubt you would be able to get anyone to bet on such a proposition.

Thank you so much for this discussion. I bought my chain today from ebay and was coming on to ask a very similar question. I got 2 meters so I can cut it down. Can anyone let me know the ideal length?

I'll also check out school for scoundrels.

Thanks!

5 feet is the usual length. If you want to do three and four loop designs, or Cat's Cradle type flourishes (Sophie Evans uses those to explain why men and boys never win at the game, and women and girls always win), then you would need a length about seven feet. You can double it and wear it around your neck as jewelry.

Fabulous. Thank you.

I've only bought really cheap chain (the kind that attaches a plug to the sink by the looks of it) for me to play with, but if I get on okay I'll track down something nicer!

French Rope style chain is what you are looking for. Ball Chain is a bit difficult to work with, as it easily rolls out of shape.
Our School for Scoundrels booklet on the Chain is only $10 as a download:

http://www.popsmagic.com/store/p50/Schoo......%22.html

Thanks! The dvd looks great. Is it available in the uk?

The DVD is available from www.scoundrelsstore.com, but the download of the video or the digital copy of the book are available at www.popsmagic.com
The Download includes the book and the video.

Thank you. I'll have a look!

The School for Scoundrels DVD (and the chain) is first class. You really can't go wrong with Pop's material.