Turning up the gain works just fine for me, Andy. It fixes the problem of sound man having to punch up the volume if the lapel mic is too far away from the face. Turning up the gain boosts the mic pickup and does not distort. So in that respect it does help with feedback.

While what you say may be true in theory,
you are generalizing on what COULD happen.

They put the little screw there for a reason and a half to full turn will ruin the dynamics the human speaking voice.

I agree but to simplify things for people just wanting to get into wireless, if you are far enough way from the speaker and it is in front of you, you can increase the volume without feedback.

Most of the time in schools and theaters the speakers are far enough way to use these mics.
More run into trouble with pole mounted amps that are right next to them.
Dynamic mics work much better in those situations or the head set.

I wanted to clarify. When I talk about turning up the gain I am not talking about the volume on my receiver but on the mic pack. If I adjust the gain on the mic pack it reacts DIFFERENTLY than if I just turned up the output on the receiver.

The best thing I ever did for my sound system was to buy a 32 band Real Time Analyzer (RTA) with a pink noise generator and a 32 band EV equalizer (EQ).

This will allow you to quickly adjust your system to the room you are in. The RTA has red, yellow and green lights. You just adjust your EQ to where the lights are green on the RTA and you’re done.

My wireless Lav sounds as good and robust as any handheld. Very seldom do I get any feedback and if I do I can quickly tell which frequency it is and eliminate it with the EQ.

Greetings everyone,
After reading all the feedback here I believe I will purchase a headset microphone, however I wonder if one could purchase a lavalier setup (Shure for example) and add on a countryman headset. Would there be any problems with plug compatability? In other words could I plug a Countryman headset into a lavalier receiver (either Shure or Sennheiser) any advice is appreciated.

Shawn Griffin

Shawn,
Whoever you buy your Contryman mic from can go to http://www.countryman.com and click on the "Wireless" link. It give the proper wiring for most RF systems, including Shure.

As to some of the other postings, I agree with Andy Leviss that "higher level is higher level" when discussing feedback. I also agree with Powermagic that Andy is generalizing, but Andy's generalizations are proven by science and by countless, consistent experimentations. They're not opinion,: They're fact.

Powermagic, if you've been getting good results, then there's something in the equation that produces anomalistic results, and those results are also the result of factual, identifiable science. In other words, if it's working for you, keep doing it.

If anyone else is looking to produce the best possible results, or looking to do some trouble-shooting in this particular arena, follow the gain-setting procedure as outlined in your beltpack's owner's manual. It'll help you to set the control with an eye on its intended use, that being to eliminate distortion and get the best "signal-to-noise ratio".

Powermagic, I hope I'm not coming across as putting you down here, because that's certainly NOT my aim (I sometimes find it hard to achieve intentional/emotional specificity in print). I'm quite serious when I say that, if it's working for you, keep doing it!

As to the other general postings about feedback, EVERY system will feed back once it reaches an acoustical equivalent of "critical mass". The buring question is, will a particular system have enough "gain-before-feedback" to suffice. Speaker placement and mic selection are the two most determining factors, and a good, solid grasp on both will make a big difference (see http://www.MagicRoadie.com).

Two people using the same system will get different results. Why? Not because the science isn't sound, but because the science can be complex. Maybe one person wears the mic differently, or one person speaks more quietly, or maybe one act uses two mics instead of one, or maybe one needs to turn the mic up more because he's also using backing music. Some parametric trial 'n error will be necessary, moreso in certain venues, but you'll save yourself a TON of grief if you remember the applicable science, or hire someone who does.

Cheers from Toronto!

Just wanted to pop in and say that I haven't forgotten my promise to post more detailed advice on how to rig mics for headworn use; I just finished up with the Monty tour yesterday and am in the airport on my way back to NJ. Once I have some downtime to get settled back in, I'll take some pictures and post all that!

Also, now that I'm done with the tour, I'm going to go back on some of what I've said as far as recommending Countryman mics. I've been living with more than 25 Countryman B6 elements from December through yesterday, and I can no longer in good faith recommend them. Countryman's quality control is awful; mics vary significantly in level from one to the next (something that probably won't affect most of you guys, but that stinks on a musical using dozens of 'em).

And, more importantly, there's a "fatal flaw" in how they wire the connectors--there's enough bare metal inside them that after a fair amount of use, a gentle pull or press on the connector/strain relief can cause the contacts inside to short out, resulting in a nasty loud popping/crunching sound. I've spoken with a few other sound engineers who've had this happen, and some who have even taken the connectors apart to see the cause (I couldn't because of the style of connectors used on the Sennheiser SK-5012 transmitters we use, which need a special tool to take them apart).

This is easy to fix, simply by using shrink tubing or electrical tape to keep the contacts insulated properly, but for some reason Countryman has yet to do this. Furthermore, when mics are sent back with this problem, they claim that it is not a warranty issue and charge the customer to repair it. Until they improve their quality control and customer service, I can't in good faith recommend them, no matter how much their size may be a boon and how good they sound.

So, for now, I suggest sticking with DPA 4060 series or Sennheiser MKE-2 series mics (While I can't offer size comparison to the B6, I do know that Sennheiser's recent MKE-2 Platinum is significantly smaller than the original MKE-2 and MKE-2 Gold). Both come in headset versions (the DPA is available as a lav, headset, or as a headset adapter for a lav, the Sennie is only available as a lav or a headset adapter, not as a true headset).

FWIW,
Andy

P.S.-I'm awaiting a call back from Countryman's head engineer regarding the shorting issue; if I hear from him (it's been nearly two weeks since he was supposed to call me back) and find some solution to these problems, I'll let you know!

I never said Andy is not stating facts. But since he is generalizing it is not always true for each independant system when it come to gain.
To tell someone that they should not turn up their gain is poor advice.
Let them try it and find the balance. Don't just assume that science is always right. Most AUDIO ACOUSTICAL SCIENCE is true in THEORY but in practical use it goes out the window BECAUSE as you admit, many factors change in the real world.

I think I will not return to this thread.

I hear you, Dan. I don't need to waste time and effort explaining things clearly when it's obviously not wanted. Science is science. It does not go out the window in the real world; it's just that it's a complex science that it's easy to think it's not doing what's expected when really it will do exactly the same thing every time, when under the exact same circumstances.

What the heck, maybe I'm a glutton for punishment, but I'll give one last attempt at explaining this clearly.

You completely misunderstand what I was trying to explain about gain. I was trying to make a few points:

One, increasing gain brings you closer to feedback, no matter where in the signal chain you add it. You can move the gain from one part of the system to another, but gain is gain is gain is gain. Changing gain can't increase the gain before feedback ratio, it's an impossiblity by nature of the fact of what it is.

Two, the gain setting on a wireless transmitter is NOT intended to be a setting of level for the system. That's not why it's there, period. It's there to--based on the type of mic element/user's voice/other variables--set the level being sent into the compander circuit (and, in the end to the transmission circuit) to prevent it from pumping or affecting the dynamics.

I can't really easily and quickly explain why this is, but if you're really interested, you can do research on why compander circuits are necessary and how they work.

That done, I'll take my science and go where people don't get upset (and, more important, rude) when they don't understand it.

Bye folks. If you want my advice on sound, you can find me elsewhere (e-mail me, that's usually the easiest way, and I can point you to public places I'll post for all interested to read). Powermagic just ruined it for everybody here. Sad, too; this was the one forum at Magic Café I actually still actively read, after all the other ones I used to got childish and petty.