Jason Latimer is by no means the first person to perform the cups and balls with clear cups. There are several others.

As long as you are pursuing your own methods, I don't see a real conflict.

There are a limited number of ways of introducing a ball into a cup and extracting a ball from a cup, but there are probably more methods than most magicians are aware of.

I discussed a couple of them with Jason when I saw him in London. I had a method he was unaware of. In fact, it would not work at all with his cups. But it was a good one. It was something Lubor Fiedler came up with.

But here's the question -- do you think a clear cups and balls routine is more impressive to a layman than one with, say, three coffee cups?

Clearly, (pun intended) Jason's routine is geared toward people who judge magic contests.

I'm really glad you replied Bill. I love reading your posts, even when the content isn't relevant to me at the time....

Anyhow, to answer your question, none of the methods I'm thinking of need a special loading / stealing move. Only one (using polarised filters) needs a special type of load.

In all cases the load is not immediately visible to the audience. The contents would become visible as the magician moved a wand or hand next to the cup, or slid the cup a little. This would cause a load to appear inside a cup that was not lifted. Which I think would appear quite magical - but I have to prototype before seeing how each method handled.

I've even considered using IT and a pole-switching electro-magnetic pad with some methods, so the magician will not need to touch the cup at all to make the load appear / disappear.

As always, the most promising methods are the simplest.

Everything I'm thinking of is gimmiked / faked to some extent. In the forum's opinion - how much less worthy does this make the pursuit of the ideas ?

I can see some advantages and disadvantages to this method.

All's fair in love, war and magic!

The key to Penn and Teller's clear Cups and Balls routine is that there are two of them. They explained that they fooled just about everyone with their Cups and Balls routine just by passing the balls between them. They also said the reason why it worked is because people can imagine one magican practicing moves in front of a mirror, but they can't imagine two people practicing moves in front of a mirror. That, along with its amazing speed, made their cups and balls one of the best.

Now, although I'm sure that it is, I don't believe at all that this makes it not geared, or even made for laymen. I thought that it was entirely so, just as how visual it all was. Truely astounding AND innovative, so it works both ways.

I do a brief sequence, with one ball and one clear shot glass, which I also produce fron under a cup, in my routione, right before the ending. I lke it.

It's all done under the "making it simpler each time" type of plot.

I love Latimers routine. It too have heard it will be released within the next couple of years, to which I am looking forward to, but if they are being made in conjunction with Joe Porper, expect to pay a lot. I do know quite a bit about the routine, like he uses sponge balls, not solid balls, their is quite a bit of lapping, and he does use a S****a gimmick to vanish 1 of the balls. His cups are very cleverly made as well, and I would love to own a set

Saying if Joe Porper makes the cups would mean they will be expensive isn't fair. No matter who makes these cups they will be expensive. One, they are totally custom made and two the creator deserves a lot of money for his creation.

This is true Pete, I was making the point as someone said Joe Porper will be making them, and Joe does make the best magic props in my eyes, I have a lot of his work and use it, I was merely pointing that fact out. You will be paying for the quality. Joes work is some of the best around, but also some of the most expensive, but I didn't say that was a problem.

Right... today's mass produced and imports are fine for hobby and beginners, but when you really get into doing top class stuff, you want props that reflect that look and feel and will hold up to heavy use.

Too true, and I agree with you. I didn't dispute that fact, I love Joes work, and for a working pro like myself, I would buy them and use them. But for other users, I was pointing out the fact that Joes amzing products don't come cheap, glad we could sort that out

FYI, here are some places online where you can see videos of Latimer performing. Kudos to him.

http://www.videosift.com/story.php?id=14......0f6cf66a

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/50567/jason_latimer_magic/

http://www.i-am-bored.com/bored_link.cfm?link_id=16924

Thanks for the links, halejs. I really enjoyed his sleights.

More than 12 years after this post. He has still not marketed his amazing routine and cups. Do you think he will do one day?

The P&T clear cups and balls routine was a piece of art! Loved it.

The P&T routine exploits an idea that can be applied more quietly. Modal misd***.

Anyone that supports the P and T clear Cups and Balls and then cries foul for the masked magician or a youtuber giving away a secret is a hypocrite. P and T are the bad boys of magic for a good reason, and should be shunned by all magicians that joined and SAM or IBM.

Jason Latimer has a wonderful Cups and Balls routine. It has notes of being better than any routine created in the last 100 years. He does make dumb faces, and his facial expressions take away from his brilliant routine, where I never even see a cup tilt. Since we do not technically know how it's done, it is quite magical. We do know that he used inattentional blindness. I would suspect the trick needs a gimmicked cup that was created just for this trick. Hopefully some day he releases his routine. I love that he looks at science and magic and makes people wonder.

Personally, I like Kent Gunn's routine better than almost anyone else's. I stood immediately at his left during the WMS in 2009 and watched him perform the routine at least a dozen times. Never caught a move or "tell."

With Latimer's routine, we are dealing with more than the normal techniques than what is "fair" in normal cups and balls. It is of course fair to use any means, but this
routine cannot be figured out by normal sleights and moves alone.
In one of his videos, the pad is latched to the table. Sure he uses some conventional techniques, but the thick pad, latched to the table
is certainly part of the bl... ar. he uses. Very clever. Along with other aspects of the cups, etc.

Here is the deal. If the shell game and sponges are understood by you, you can understand a lot of this. Most of this.