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EndersGame Inner circle Reviewer EndersGame 2194 Posts |
Is there anyone else who uses the pinky count to set-up for a double lift?
I've always struggled to do a pushover get-ready with two cards smoothly and naturally, so I prefer using a pinky count to that. A two card pinky count also draws less attention or suspicion than doing a thumb count for the same purpose. In terms of the difficulty, I find that it can make a difference what playing cards I use. In my experience, it's easier to do a pinky count consistently with playing cards produced by Expert Playing Card Company (EPCC or LPCC) than with playing cards produced by USPCC (e.g. Bicycle). How common is this, and is it a recommended technique to use for setting up a DL? |
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drumdemon420 Veteran user 396 Posts |
It almost the ONLY way I set up for a double lift.
I learned it years ago from Darwin Ortiz's At the Card Table and it has been my go to ever since. |
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Poof-Daddy Inner circle Considering Stopping At Exactly 5313 Posts |
I am fairly sure Jason Ladanye does also. He does a fantastic job teaching the pinky count in his first book "Confident Deceptions". It is the first thing taught in the book IIRC. Since drumdemon420 mentions Darwin Ortiz teaching it and the fact that Jason was his student for years... I would venture to guess where Jason got it.
I am actually one who always said that I had gone my entire magic career never using a pinky count. Many others agree and still never do since there are other ways to do moves that might use it. However, after studying "Confident Deceptions", I gave it some work and got fairly proficient at the dreaded pinky count and do use it at times (I still have a way to go if I want it to be one of my mainstays). Since I mentioned "Confident Deceptions", his newer book "Game Changer" also opens with work on the pinky count before getting into the effects.
Cancer Sux - It is time to find a Cure
Don't spend so much time trying not to die that you forget how to live - H's wife to H on CSI Miami (paraphrased). |
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Mr Pink Regular user 120 Posts |
Hi, guys.
I think the pinky count is great and I do use it to set up for DL's and TL's. I've only used Bicycle cards though so I haven't been able to do comparisons with other brands. But they work fine for me. I've been enjoying working on it lately and love it when I find a routine that allows for the sleight's problems (namely tension, and unreliability) to be hidden or managed effectively. I do understand though that these issues are a real concern and can cause anxiety under fire. It stands to reason that a more sure-fire option would be preferable (i.e. pushing over two cards and sliding them back or gesturing with the top card whilst pushing over the next card etc). But it seems to me there are instances where those options just aren't practical and the pinky count would be so much better. For instance, in Roy Walton's wonderful 'Autograph Hunter' the magician ends up having to obtain a break below the top three cards of the face-down deck whilst the second card is secretly face up. Pushing over three cards is risky here, even when dropping your hand by your side or using attention control techniques. Because if just one person sees the face up card, the effect is ruined. So, with my limited knowledge, that only leaves two other options: riffling up the back of the cards to catch a break - no way am I doing that - and the pinky count. So, at the very least, in instances where not all the cards that are being counted are facing the same way, I think a pinky count is a VERY useful option. Of course, for those who don't have any routines that have this problem, they'll probably be happy doing what they're doing. And that's fair enough, it's certainly not an essential sleight. But it is a valuable tool that gives you options, and in the right context with the right cover it is FANTASTIC. And if anyone is thinking about learning the move, why not give Autograph Hunter a go? In the scenario I mentioned above, the top card has been signed on the back. I use this opportunity to raise the cards to my face and blow the ink dry. That's when I perform the pinky count, slowly and surely. With the cards held in that position in front of your face it is impossible to see the tension or the cards releasing and you can take your time counting the cards. And when you turn those three cards over, that's you done - no more counting involved. It's a great trick for practicing the move. Mr Pink |
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Ray J Inner circle St. Louis, MO 1503 Posts |
I do not. I almost always use a Strike Double so it is not necessary. I will occasionally use a thumb count, but it is rare when I do.
It's never crowded on the extra mile....
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Harry Lorayne 1926 - 2023 New York City 8558 Posts |
Been doing card magic for over 80-plus years, written about it for over 60-plus years - haven't used a pinky count yet...never found it necessary. (Same goes for the diagonal palm shift!)
[email]harrylorayne@earthlink.net[/email]
http://www.harrylorayne.com http://www.harryloraynemagic.com |
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langston3711 Loyal user Cumming, GA 218 Posts |
I used to do the hit double lift and liked it just fine and was pretty good at it but once I was able to do the pinky count I switched to using it all the time for a DL get ready. I also think its the best way to do triple lifts.
When a magician lets you notice something on your own, his lie becomes impenetrable
~Teller |
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Ray J Inner circle St. Louis, MO 1503 Posts |
Quote:
On Feb 12, 2020, langston3711 wrote: A nice alternative technique for doubles and triples is Ron Bauer's TTT. I believe it is still available.
It's never crowded on the extra mile....
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weirdwizardx Veteran user 389 Posts |
I had never use it.
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davidpaul$ Inner circle Georgetown, South Carolina 3082 Posts |
Larry Jennings "Snap Double" I use sometimes.
Mostly I just apply pressure with my thumb on top of the deck and it's easy to execute the DL.
Guilt will betray you before technique betrays you!
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Merc Man Inner circle NUNEATON, Warwickshire 2536 Posts |
As most of my stuff is done with loads of cover whilst standing, a push off is a darn sight easier than a 'pinkie count'!
It's also a lot more reliable (particularly as I use Waddingtons playing cards here in the UK).
Barry Allen
Over 14 years have passed - and still missing Abra Magazine arriving every Saturday morning. |
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Proximo New user Belgium 96 Posts |
Depends. I tend to switch between the snap double, strike or pinky count.
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tomd Special user 747 Posts |
Quote:
On Feb 15, 2020, Merc Man wrote: You use waddingtons?! The bridge size cards? Man... do you use them out of convenience or do you actually prefer them? I know Bikes are harder to get in the UK, but I’ve handled waddingtons... it’s borderline torture. |
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Rupert Pupkin Inner circle 1452 Posts |
Hey, you've gotta have SOME excuse to not use to pinky count
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Topper2 Regular user 126 Posts |
Waddington cards were never the best to use, I used to love the old Alf Cooke Bridge size cards when they were available, but even Waddingtons used to be reasonably O.K., however in recent times they've changed ownership and manufacturer and really have become almost impossible to use for serious card work. It's a great pity as they are still widely used by card players who don't need to worry about how well cut or how pliable they are. The consequence is that most magicians in the UK now rely on imported cards that are Poker size which looks alien to the ordinary spectator who will rarely have handled anything other than Bridge cards.
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tomd Special user 747 Posts |
Quote:
On Feb 17, 2020, Topper2 wrote: Ahh, I didn’t know they changed manufacturers... was that recent? I base my feeling on using them 10 years ago. 1 in every few performances I’ll get someone ask “hey, what kind of cards are they? Is it a special deck?” When I handle a pack of bikes. But that curiosity has never been due to them being suspicious of the brand or size of the cards... I’m almost certain this is true, as living when in Canada for two years (where bikes are the norm), I had the exactly the same ratio of people asking me that question. I’ve personally never encountered someone who raised suspicions of the cards based on how they felt, handled, looked, or based on the larger size, or ask “are these bigger than usual?”. Now I do know (or did meet) 3 laymen who were very familiar with cards, but weren’t magicians.... the were poker dealers in a casino, so poker sized cards with an unfamiliar back design didn’t raise a red flag at all. That what they handle day to day. I’m pretty sure (but not certain) the vast amount of people don’t use bridge sized cards enough to register a difference. If you have had a different experience, let me know! Either way, if every English man stopped me to say “Hey! Those aren’t normal cards, they are too big!! You trying to pull a fast one??” - I’d still never use waddingtons... they are truly horrific. |
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tomd Special user 747 Posts |
Quote:
On Feb 17, 2020, Rupert Pupkin wrote: Haha! It’s a pretty good excuse.. pinky counting waddingtons is like pinky counting a block of wood. My excuse is that I’m lazy.. don’t see much use in putting all that work into achieving something I can already do another way. I’m in Harry’s camp for the pinky count |
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Topper2 Regular user 126 Posts |
Quote:
On Feb 17, 2020, tomd wrote: Sadly yes, the toy company Hasbro bought out Waddington's in 1994 and later a company called Winning Moves bought the brand from Hasbro. I believe the cards are now manufactured to a less stringent standard, possibly abroad by more than one supplier (not certain about that but quality does seem to vary now). All I can say is that the Waddies I used and bought in the late 80s and early 90s were vastly better for manipulating than the offering you get today which are so stiff that its impossible to spring them or do a pressure fan, and are so badly cut that the corners almost resemble a stripper deck when you rotate cards in the deck! Fortunately I don't do a pinky count, because I've never needed to and don't see why I should start doing unnecessary moves now when I'm quite content doing it the way I've always done it, but if I did I'd never get away with it using the current waddington's No.1. |
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nyborn New user 78 Posts |
I like the pinky count, but as my push off has gotten sooo much better, I find that easier along with Martin Nash's Knockout DL.
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Yash Pataskar New user 68 Posts |
I think the technique can be used when it is the right one. I use it most of the times but not essentially the only one I would use for a DL.
It also helps us getting a break below more cards, anything upto 10-15. I have seen a lot of us do it wrong (IMO) that they do it at waist height, it is so much more deceptive when we drop the hand down & relaxed. At times I have even seen cards pop up when some one is doing it. |
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