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Ray Pierce Inner circle Los Angeles, CA 2604 Posts 
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On Jul 16, 2020, saysold1 wrote: I tend to agree with SAYSOLD1. A review is only as good as the reviewer's ability to appreciate the value of the subtlety and nuance contained therein. I will agree that Collin's work is definitely geared towards the working professionals and not the amateur market. If you're doing a skype session with your Aunt Joan, this isn't for you. If you're a professional working a real zoom session with a dozen or more participants, this is the real deal. It doesn't have to do with the review being "honest", it has to do with the reviewer's perspective which is everything. I want to hear from real world working pros to get their perspective on how it resonates with them. That's not to say that other magic demographics don't need people from their perspective as well. The Café has a WIDE range of participants and I would venture to say that one type of review doesn't necessarily speak to everyone. For me, This effect has all the work and thought a pro needs, but it's not for everyone nor do I expect everyone to be able to appreciate it.
Ray Pierce
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Miraclemakers Special user INA 685 Posts
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Just watched the video, I'd prefer not to say "any words", but yes from any book....
Nothing's new on the method, but executed beautifully during online performance. |
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UnbiasedMagicReviews.png "View Profile") Veteran user 344 Posts
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On Jul 16, 2020, Ray Pierce wrote: So let me ask you - What's the difference between performing a mental effect for your Aunt Joan or the CEO of whatever company? In my mind, I see no difference. What's more, if this product was meant more for the "working pro" as you call it, then why is it being sold on Penguin Magic along with all of the rest of Colin Mcleod's products and not as a limited release directly from Mr. Mcleod himself? I agree with your idea of the review being dependent on the reviewers perspective. Luckily, I have extensive experience with the original effect from which it was taken and can explain to my viewers the differences so they can make a good informed decision whether or not they should buy this.
YouTube & Instagram - UnbiasedMagicReviews
I buy/review magic to help you make better decisions Unbiased The Definitive ACAAN -The BEST Ungimmicked ACAAN - https://youtu.be/YtAAETDIouA |
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ScarneAce Regular user In a Galaxy far, far away... 150 Posts
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"A review is only as good as the reviewer's ability to appreciate the value of the subtlety and nuance contained therein"
That's like saying a movie review is only as good as your knowledge of directional lightning/cgi/close ups/scene transitions. Personally I've found that if we have to look for subtleties and nuances, then the core effect just isn't that strong. Look at the work of Kenton Knepper, he has all his fanboys saying that magicians don't appreciate the nuances behind his work. Could it just be that the effect just isn't that good as they made out? |
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DavidMac New user Stafford, UK 81 Posts
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I picked this up due to the names attached to the project. I'm in 2 minds about it...
Personally I think in a group zoom show it will work. One on one via zoom or in person I'm not so sure however; this could come down to experience performing this type of effect. The process is fairly new to me, and to be honest, if I'd known what it was I would probably have stayed away from it as I've avoided effects where this process has been clearly stated, or heavily hinted at in reviews, in the past. Will I perform it? It doesn't fit in my current zoom show so as it stands no, I've already got a book/page test in there that works really well. But, I think there may be a place for it in the future should I change the type of show I'm doing. In person, I'd probably stick to AAA booktest, gimmicked book, Hoy or combinations of. |
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Ray Pierce Inner circle Los Angeles, CA 2604 Posts
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On Jul 27, 2020, UnbiasedMagicReviews wrote: I'll try and clarify for you. The more random people that are in the zoom group, the more deceptive it is. Most pros work for larger groups of people that are not related. Most amateurs work for the same people, typically more closely related to the magician in some way. This particular method and related subtleties are perfect for a larger type zoom call with more participants. It could work in theory for a single person but you would certainly not be able to apply a lot of the nuance that increases the deceptiveness of it.
Ray Pierce
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Ray Pierce Inner circle Los Angeles, CA 2604 Posts
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On Jul 27, 2020, ScarneAce wrote: I would suggest getting better material from better artists. The core effect should always be strong but after that, the "subtleties and nuances" are what separates the decent effect from the best. On the other hand, if you are unable to apply the more advanced psychological techniques, then that's up to you to improve yourself.
Ray Pierce
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UnbiasedMagicReviews Veteran user 344 Posts
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On Jul 27, 2020, DavidMac wrote: I have performed the original version (Elsdon) both on videochat and live one on one. I found it to be more convincing live than on videochat and use it primarily as a piece of situational mentalism when I meet someone who has a book with them. As I perform for complete strangers constantly in my work setting, its very common that they have their own book with them. I also found that if you combine this with the Hoy Principle you will end up with a more convincing effect, overall. Not getting into specifics, if you know the Hoy Principle and you own this, then you can easily work out where I am coming from.
YouTube & Instagram - UnbiasedMagicReviews
I buy/review magic to help you make better decisions Unbiased The Definitive ACAAN -The BEST Ungimmicked ACAAN - https://youtu.be/YtAAETDIouA |
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Bartelli Elite user Belgium 403 Posts
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If you have this effect, then you know that the hardest thing is 'finding new words'. I don't want to expose anything here.
But if you search my posts, you will find a tool that makes this part easy, in 6 languages now. I have performed this effect on Zoom and I was very happy with the response!
Mentalist / Mindreader Bart Nijs
www.bartnijs.be Belgian Mentalist / Mindreader Bart Nijs Some webapps for mentalists |
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Martin Pulman Inner circle London 3399 Posts
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I thought this was very underwhelming. The process of a spectator holding a book up to the camera makes little sense and the method to determine the word should never really be used in this fashion, in my opinion.
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jlevey Inner circle Montreal, Quebec, Canada 2076 Posts
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Currently, I perform the classic MOABT over zoom with great response.
Still, I like the idea of one of the virtual guests grabbing a book off their shelf, allowing me to go into performing a book test where they are holding the actual book in their hands so they know without a doubt they book is legit, instead of looking through their screen at the pages of the MOABT, as I flip through them to show that the pages are “all(?)” different, then have them “choose” their word. Robert Baxt seems to offer such a solution with hus Harry Potter book test. But if the helper does not happen to have a copy of this particular book, then the Baxt Harry Potter book test cannot proceed. There are many excellent reviews already posted on this thread and I am thankful for these. Still, I am curious to know if there are any new reviews or additional insights from those that have performed this effect, Verbatim, over zoom recently? I am still debating if I should purchase the orignal effect, included in Elsdon’s Conversation as Mentalism, or purchase the more recent version, Verbatim. Since I am planning try out this book test over zoom, not live, and believe that the content and presentation(s) described may be more suited to zoom shows in this more recent version.
Jonathan
Max & Maxine Entertainment Magicians with a touch of comedy! ___________________________________ www.maxmagician.com www.mindreadershow.com www.monsieurmagic.com |
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cardistry master Special user 761 Posts
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I think they’re the same method. Hopefully someone else can confirm but I liked verbatim. I’ve done it once or twice and it went over pretty well. I still think wikitest is the best over zoom book test like thing as they aren’t limited at all but I also like this.
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jlevey Inner circle Montreal, Quebec, Canada 2076 Posts
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With Baxt’s Book test, not sure, but. I believe the performer needs their own copy of this book within arm’s reach, but nit sure. It does not seem to be an effect that the performer can simply download, then perform.
Who puts out the WikiTest? Sounds like a fun and very relatable idea! Could you please post a link to a description of it, etc.? Many thanks!
Jonathan
Max & Maxine Entertainment Magicians with a touch of comedy! ___________________________________ www.maxmagician.com www.mindreadershow.com www.monsieurmagic.com |
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cardistry master Special user 761 Posts
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Yeah with Baxt’s they need a book. With wikitest they go to wikipedia and search for whatever they want. Then they scroll and pick any long word. You can guess both words. They also end on the real Wikipedia. It’s available here. https://apps.apple.com/us/app/wikitest-t......77870786 If you have any other questions feel free to message me since I don’t want to derail the thread.
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granterg Special user 593 Posts
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This effect looks very much like Ty Kralin's effect Whenever-Anywhere.
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| The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Latest and Greatest? » » Verbatim by Mark Elsdon,Ran Pink & Colin McLeod (24 Likes) | ||||||||||
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Posted: Jul 16, 2020 06:33 pm 
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