Compare the Tamariz DL to what I gave you. No comparison. But I cant share it any more too good.

OK so I have 2 parts to this response, Bob. First is not directly answering your question, but going along with what others say about the break. I feel like the move you are trying to do with obtaining the break whilst squaring up the deck means you've located the odd coloured card in the middle of the deck spread, cur above the card & whilst squaring it up you're trying to obtain the break yes? Well I do mine a bit different.

I just square the deck up so I have the deck in one hand & no break, but with the odd coloured card on the top. Now I have 2 variations that you might like to try to see which fits or flows better. The premise is that I use my left thumb to slide the top card off into my right hand pinch grip, so that I'm actually only holding one (red) card face down in my right hand. The method that I prefer is as I'm doing that, I slide off two cards to the right with my left thumb (& you can look while doing this to get a visual on how many cards you're pushing off, the colour contrast makes it pretty obvious), pick up the red one & get a break below the single blue card that is left. If you're not confident in that, you can just slide off the top red card, & whilst using it to gesture & point casually ("Why did you go & pick the obvious, odd coloured one?" or something along that line), obtain a single card break with your left hand. I then bring the red card back on top of the deck in my left hand & place the card on top of the single card break (thus creating a double break) as I point to the spectator with my right hand & ask them "what was the card you picked?" & pick up the DL now & hold it face pressed against my chest, red back out to audience as if I'm trying to hide the card value from everyone's view. This single card handling does break up the first reveal a bit, & gives you a bit of time to breathe & read & react appropriately to the audience. I hope that paragraph made sense?

Now for the second part to this response, if you stick with your method & end up accidentally pick up a triple or more. Just say whoops you've stuffed up, bring to attention again the triple lifted wrong selection, then turn all face down & discard the single red card face down on a surface & just say you'd like to try the trick again. Proceed with the second part of the Chicago opener using the force, & pretend you stuffed up again, only to reveal it was the wrong selection from your first attempt. Voila!

Thanks, J. Although the details are somewhat different, I think what you're suggesting in your second paragraph is basically the Robert-Houdin method, which Landmark described on p. 1 of this thread. I've been working on that, and it's coming along nicely.

Thanks for your ideas!


Regards,

Bob

There have been some really good posts on this thread, but I do honestly think that to some degree that you have to find your own way with doubles.

By all means check out other people's ideas, but what is comfortable in your hands may not be the same as others.

I will also say that some very successful magicians have technique that would not pass as 'natural' but work for them, so I know I'm setting myself up with this post, but experiment, play and observe, but make it your own!

I agree and would go even farther: in any creative activity, you progress by learning from others' work, keeping what helps you and discarding the rest, and ultimately find a style that integrates into your own personality (and shape of hands, etc. ) And even then you keep learning from others, keeping what helps you, etc.

Aye it was the first response I read, but by the time I got to the start of page 4 I must've forgot... =P The only subtle difference is that I find pushing off two cards with your left thumb flows better, rather than the alternative of pushing off one card, & then the next top card using the single odd coloured card as misdirection. That you can hold the entire deck up closer to eye level as you do this, gives you a completely fail proof visual as to how many cards you're pushing off under the top (red) card (as long as you also remember to tilt the deck downwards to prevent accidental flashes from underneath. Yup, the details are somewhat different. =P

Would the second part of my response help though? Instead of the Chicago being a two phase reveal, if you accidentally do a triple in the first part, I feel like it doesn't take away from the original impact of the second reveal (seen by the spectator still as an impossible feat of magic!)

The only time I've REALLY blown my Chicago opener before was when I didn't actually set the deck up properly at the start with the 2 same faced cards together prior to performing the effect. The first part went smoothly, but I blew the second reveal, which was such an embarrassing anti-climax. Even though the first card selection "magically" changed into another card, but the fact that it didn't actually change into the second selection (after I've played it up in the build & all) really fell flat. Only ever had to make that mistake once to make sure I always check my set up before performing! =P

On a side note, I actually use Chicago opener to close my set in a strolling environment. I start with a "This, That & Other" effect with Joker(s), Ace & a wild card kicker, then tell the audience that perhaps 3 cards are too hard to follow, so then I go into a 2CM. After the 2CM, then I say maybe 2 cards are also too many cards to follow, let's just use one then, & go into a "pick a card" trick, either Chicago opener (if there is a suitable surface as my dump pile) or ACR.

Using this format, I usually tend to create a "chuck pile" when I'm done with an effect. So after TTO, I keep the ace for 2CM & "chuck" the joker & wild card face up to the side. When I'm done with the 2CM, I chuck the aces & queens face up on top of that chuck pile. So by the time I show the first reveal in my Chicago opener, when I chuck the single odd coloured card face down on top of the chuck pile, I find that people are much less likely to want to check the card after I've put it down. Anyone else find that when they actually open with Chicago, the first effect is so strong that if you're not yet confident or competent at crowd control, people have a tendency to want to check the odd backed card when you put it down. It doesn't feel natural also to put a single card down & then place a glass or a bottle on top of it, & the worst part is when you accidentally put a cold glass drinking vessel with condensation build up on top of your card...

/2c

Hi Jon,


As I'm spreading through the cards and sight the odd-colored one, I keep pushing so that both the odd card and the selection are right-jogged, though not aligned. So I *think* I'm doing what you described.


People have made lots of good suggestions about recovering if the DL doesn't go well; I'll add yours to my list. I need some experience to figure out which one I prefer.


Interesting that people tend to reach for the odd card. To me that seems kinda rude, but I guess if you perform for strangers you have to be prepared for that. Do you think it would work to just casually throw the card on the table, but make sure it stays pretty close to magician?


Bob

Probably a bit of repetition here from the other thread, but in my first spread to sight the odd-coloured card, I don't actually keep a break at all, I just perform a normal cut to bring the odd-coloured card to the top & hold the deck sitting in my left hand without a break. (To reference your video, after I've sighted & cut the card to the top, I should be at 0:00 in your video). When I push off the top odd-coloured card (0:15 in your video), I also push the second card slightly & get a break (0:16 in your video) to get ready for the DL reveal (& rest the face up double on my pinky as it lands so I'm already one step ahead, ready to turn them back face down & peel off the single odd-backed card to toss on the surface).

As to people reaching for the face down card, sometimes I perform for BIG groups of people, often drunks, sometimes a bunch of excited kids, sometimes rowdy teenagers, sometimes mixed gender with an aplha male that doesn't like to be stumped (or at least not in front of their crew), sometimes a bunch of entitled moms, high flying executive types, etc. In the past dozen or so years of working as a party magician, I've come across a lot of unexpected situations that I'm constantly trying to plan to expect for... =P Casually tossing a single card down on the table works about 84.67% of the time (roughly), but it's that every now & then slightly over curious with not much concept of personal or professional boundaries kinda person that can ruin your grand finale if you're not 100% on top of it.

You've brave to perform for the groups you describe. I promise never to do that. I like "84.67% (approximately)."

Hi again Bob!
This should be really easy. If not, there must be something you are overlooking. I noticed you made no mention of the left fingers in the second quote above...

Hold the deck in your left hand (assuming you are right handed).
With help from your right hand, spread/fan the top 3 or maybe 4 cards. A fan shape works best rather than a straight spread, because you can show a lot of each card at the top, but they are tighter at the bottom so easier to hold. I have my left pinkie sticking out so the cards rest on it for support.
Now the crucial detail - the tips of your left middle (& maybe also ring) finger is touching the back of the second card.
Square up the cards with your right hand. As you do this your left fingers create the break.

If you want the break under (say) the first or third card instead, you just place the fingertips against that card instead. It's the LEFT fingers hidden underneath that create the break initially.
From here you could transfer the break to your left pinkie or right thumb or whatever you need to do. In fact in this case you would immediately DL.

Nick

Hi there, Nick! Good to hear from you. I appreciate these details. I've been working on the Robert-Houdin method lately, and I'm slowly getting better. But I haven't settled on one method -- still trying different ones and seeing where they take me -- so your advice is welcome. I'll try it out!



Note to JonMaddgician: One method I've tried a little bit is your suggestion of cutting the deck so the odd card is on top, and then proceeding with a DL from the top of the deck. I'm beginning to get pretty good at the latter, using a pinky count, so that's an alternative. But if I can, I'd prefer to master the method that Nick describes, because things seem better-hidden to me that way. No need to get a pinky count.


Bob

I did this trick tonight and accidentally got a triple. Oops. "Oh, I accidentally got two!"
One guy says, "Oh, I see how he'd did it!"

I get the double and reveal the first selection.

"Oh, did you see it? Did I screw it up? I haven't done this trick in a long time. Let's try it again." I then continued with handing the red card off to a spectator and choosing the second selection.

Oh my gosh. This trick destroyed those guys
It was like over the top video footage, maybe BECAUSE they thought they knew, whatever the case...
They had NO clue. Which just goes to show you, unless it's an absolutely catastrophic mistake, keep going, they might think they've seen something and you might think you screwed up, but maybe you didn't!

For 10 minutes after the trick they were telling other people I changed a card red "in their hand!"

"It was IN MY HAND!"

So that's one way to recover: just keep going.

Oh, that's a great story, Theodore. Made me smile, and makes performing the trick seem less intimidating. Good thinking to say, "I accidentally got two!"


Bob

P. S. As a relative newcomer to magicand magic performance, I need to keep in mind advice that I read in one of my books. Basically the idea is that one thing that new magician has to get over is the feeling that the method is so obvious that it can't possibly fool a lay audience. It seems so obvious! -- once you know the secret. So we could say that that's the moral of your story: don't worry about seeming obviousness -- just perform!

3 months later - here are some more suggestions...

Keep working on the DL's - mine have improved noticeably with practice.
Focus on accuracy, not speed. Even if you do a "strike" DL, don't rush it. Give yourself time to get exactly two cards. Plan your script to give yourself time.
Use new-ish cards, not old ones.
Bevel the deck.

I have experimented with various gaffs...

Science Friction is excellent! It costs about £80 for a starter kit though. Or you can buy an SF invisible deck for about £20. (Be aware only half the cards are treated. Also it will be a Phoenix deck, not Bicycle.)
SF will make it a piece of cake to do DL's. You might decide to stick with that and never look back. OR you could keep practicing the DL, so you become less dependent on the SF.

I have also played around with crimps, short cards, long cards etc.
I have found that a CORNER SHORT card can be a great aid to doing a DL.
One nice bonus is you can try for the "unassisted" DL at the end or side; but if you have a problem, use the corner as insurance.

You can use a corner short for many purposes.
For a DL, I have come across two -

1. Arrange for the corner short card to be underneath the two cards you want to DL. It is then really easy to pick up those two cards as one.
In the context of Chicago Opener, I think this means you would want to CS the top card, and not use the Hindu Shuffle.
Eg. Spread cards in hands. Spectator selects a card. Extend RIGHT hand for spec to return card. Drop LEFT packet on top.

2. The TOP card of the double can be the CS. This would be the stranger card itself in Chicago Opener. You then pick up the double at the corner as before - but it feels like you are only picking up one card. Literally you don't even try to get two, it just works because the top card does not reach to the corner.

You can buy a corner cutter for about £10 ($10?) so easy to make your own.
Also useful for lots of other ideas. EG using one normal card in a corner-shorted deck is very useful.

Thanks for taking the time to write, Nick. Great ideas. And I'm so glad your DL's are improving.


My strike DL is improving, though still not quite as consistent as I'd like. I continue to experiment with (1) the Robert-Houdin get-ready, (2) the pinky count get-ready, (3) catching the break while closing the spread, and (4) cutting the stranger card to the top and doing a strike DL. All of them are getting better, but #4 is in the lead at the moment.


In a PM, a friend on the Café had some really valuable ideas about how to recover if you catch the wrong number of cards:


a. First, work on *feeling* how many cards you've caught, and if it's wrong, just let the card(s) drop, make some remark, and then try again. (In my case, I'm using a red wand -- a plastic straw! -- so I would say, "Oh, I meant to ask you, did you turn the card red intentionally?" If they say "no," magi says, "I wonder if the *wand* made that choice.) Then try the DL again (and maybe catch the corner of your corner short just to be sure).


b. Second, if you inadvertently pick up more than two cards, just catch a break again under them all as they fall face-up on the deck. When spectator says, "No, that wasn't my selection, turn all the cards back face-down onto the deck, appear to think for a moment, and say, "I wonder if I gave you the wrong wand." Give them another one (a different-colored straw in my case), catch a more or less fool-proof break under two cards using a pinky count, have them tap the deck with the new wand, and turn the two cards face-up -- a sudden and mysterious transformation to the selection!


c. Third, suppose you do a *single* lift. Then you can use the same strategy as in (b), except that they've already seen the second-phase selection, so you end the trick and leave it at the first phase. (I don't think this is what my friend suggested, but it seems to work...)



I'm not a big fan of sprays; especially because I have asthma, I don't want to risk breathing in (or handling) potentially toxic stuff.


But -- I really like your corner-cut ideas. Very clever. I'll try them out. I even own a corner-cutter already!


By the way, "Focus on accuracy not speed" is a very welcome reminder. I tend to forget that principle and try to practice my sleights too quickly.


See you,


Bob