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Cameron Francis V.I.P. 7025 Posts |
Watched the video. Full disclosure: I have been interviewed by Crag on his YouTube channel and he and Ryland have given positive reviews to a couple of my effects. However, I am not chiming in this thread because of that. I'm chiming in because of the absolute bonkers direction it took.
First, it's a review show. Not a show for lay people. Not a polished performance. It's like any other review show. The reviewer posts a bare bones presentation of an effect and gives his/her thoughts on it. If you're a magician with any sort of experience, you probably know what's going on 95% of the time anyway, so the idea is to see if a particular effect might suit your style. The thing I don't understand is, what'a the issue having Ryland perform Executive Suite? Were you honestly looking for a polished masterpiece on a review show? If so, you're looking in the wrong place. Did he mess up the trick and expose anything? No. He demed the trick. And was charming to boot. Honestly, I've seen plenty of adults do far worse in paid performances. But this wasn't a professional performance. The purpose is to show you what you get and to give you a general idea of what the effect looks like. Job done. As to the whole appropriateness of kids making off color jokes... the simple fact is, If a child makes an off color comment out of naiveté, it's hilarious. I think most adults are on board with that. Ryland had no idea what he was actually saying. Which is adorable and super funny to adults. The internet is chock full of kids innocently swearing and making off color jokes with total innocence. They made a whole movie about it called "Good Boys" which was freaking hilarious. No one that I know has any issue whatsoever with a kid saying something a little blue out of innocence. Now, an adult saying something off-color to a kid is another story. There's nothing funny or charming about that. And a kid saying something rude to an adult with full knowledge of what they're saying is also a different story. On the inappropriate scale, Ryland making an oblique joke about his dad liking a dungeon, or whatever it was, was hardly a reason for anyone to clutch their pearls. It was cute and funny. Ryland's passion for magic shines through every time I see him on YouTube. I think he's delightful. And I enjoy his and Craig's reviews. They're fun, honest, and informative. That's all I want in a review show.
MOMENT'S NOTICE LIVE 3 - Six impromptu card tricks! Out now! http://cameronfrancismagic.com/moments-notice-live-3.html
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pegasus Eternal Order United Kingdom 10537 Posts |
I’m glad I viewed it in exactly the same way. It was indeed hilarious, totally innocent, and great entertainment.
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charlie_d Loyal user 247 Posts |
100% agree with everything Cameron said. I realise agreeing isn't adding anything new to the discussion but I think it's important to show that the criticism is a minority view.
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Gaz Lawrence Inner circle 5991 Posts |
100% agree with Cameron , pegasus and charlie_d , best wishes Gaz 🙂
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Doric Special user 791 Posts |
Ryland is better than 90% of adult magicians who make home videos and post them online.
Craig is a force, so he's bound to attract criticism. I'm a fan of both father and son. Their content is always insightful, thought provoking and entertaining. I can't believe it's all free! |
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dooblehorn Inner circle Pittsburg, CA 2474 Posts |
Ye, nicely done Craig and Ryland, I'm a fan!
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Martin Pulman Inner circle London 3399 Posts |
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On Oct 31, 2020, Cameron Francis wrote: I couldn't disagree more. We are all indebted to a history of incredibly talented people who made sure the secrets of magic had to be searched out and who believed that public performance of magic should be well performed after proper rehearsal. Every poor public performance of magic reduces the wonder and beauty of magic. I would say to any young performers reading the Café, please respect the art of magic and mentalism enough not to put bare bones performances of your own routines on you tube, far less other people's routines. If you want feedback from people, make the videos unlisted and ask for feedback on here. Lots of people will be willing to help. Respect the arts of magic and mentalism by always presenting it publicly to as high a standard as possible. |
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Gaz Lawrence Inner circle 5991 Posts |
I agree with that Martin , but I think what you describe is completely different than a magic review show aimed at magicians .
Also I haven’t watched all of Ryland’s performances but what I have seen have looked exceptional for a 7 year old . I don’t think he has messed up any tricks I have seen or exposed anything and is infact a lot better than a lot of adult magicians already imo Gaz 🙂 |
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AutarchicFlux Special user 583 Posts |
Martin's insecurity remains utterly pathetic and embarrassing for a man his age, who also doesn't seem to understand what magic review shows are, has no sense of decency or good will, and would like to make insulting a child's performance the hill he dies on. It's clear he genuinely hates children.
Martin, honestly, you are a weak, garbage human being. Keep your mouth shut. watching you repeatedly insult a child, not get the point of a review show, and generally make a fool of yourself has become unbearable. We get it, you are a sad, pitiable, resentful man. Seeing a child practice your art strains your fragile psyche. We feel pain on your behalf. Now shut up. |
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The Unmasked Magician Inner circle If only I didn't have a wife and a kid I would have MUCH more than 2645 Posts |
Dude, chill out.
Please check regularly if you are becoming the type of magician Jerry Seinfeld jokes about. (This applies to mentalists as well.)
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CardGuyMike Special user 787 Posts |
You can't win. Many review shows get criticized because they don't perform the tricks they are reviewing. Here Craig and Ryland spend a week practicing the tricks so that they can perform them, and now the criticism is that the performance isn't good enough. In this brave new world of YouTube exposure with poor performances and explanations by teenagers who don't know what they're doing, don't credit anyone, and have no respect for magic, it seems silly to target Craig's channel. I for one appreciate reviewers who perform the tricks and I put more stock in their reviews given that they have had to actually learn the effect.
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Gaz Lawrence Inner circle 5991 Posts |
Yes it’s a silly argument by Martin imo .
Craig is a great magician and he is also no fool . It’s obvious he wouldn’t let his son perform an effect on his channel until he thought he wouldn’t expose it imo . It’s a completely different ball game to just anybody setting up a channel to review and or expose magic . Craig has the chops when it comes to magic and when it comes to bringing up his delightful son . It’s a non argument that Martin has created that holds absolutely no weight and he is just digging himself further and further into a hole imo . Best wishes Gaz 🙂 |
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TheGingerWizard Special user 733 Posts |
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On Nov 2, 2020, Martin Pulman wrote: That’s quite the romanticised view of magic history! Theft, exposure and poor performances have been around as long as magic itself so let me burst that bubble for you. Less prevalent, yes but if youtube, downloads etc were around at the time you can be *** sure there would have been plenty of people to exploit it! There is always good and bad at any point in history in any industry. Policemen these days look younger too eh!? |
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Martin Pulman Inner circle London 3399 Posts |
Quote:
On Nov 2, 2020, AutarchicFlux wrote: You need to learn to debate without resorting to silly, personal insults. I suspect I've done, and continue to do, far more to help young performers than you will ever dream of doing. I work with them all the time. In all fields of entertainment. And you don't improve performances by pretending they are better than they are (and, in any event, I've already said the kid does decent, charming work when he's given the right material). I've spent years listening to stage moms and dad's demanding this and that for their kids. It means nothing to me. I love kids who want to perform; it's pushy stage parents I dislike. If a kid is good enough and has talent they want to hear honest criticism. Reserve patting children on the head for the school nativity play. And age is irrelevant to the argument, anyway. Just because bare-bones performances of effects has become normalized on You Tube doesn't make it right. Exposure on You Tube, even by professionals, has been normalized. That doesn't make it right. And young performers: Love the art in yourself, not yourself in the art. Respect the creators and performers who came before you and remember you are an ambassador for magic every time you perform. Especially on places like You Tube. Don't give in to the voices on this thread demanding they be shown any old performance of the trick they are desperate to buy. If they can't decide whether to invest in a performance piece without seeing an under-rehearsed You Tube performance you have to question their judgement. They are like hyenas hysterically circling the body of a dying animal, desperate for any old scrap of meat. Don't be sucked in to the pack. The people worth listening to don't put bare-bones stuff on You Tube. Seek the work of those people out. Learn from them. They are still out there. Try to make sure the wonder and beauty of magic and mentalism is preserved. It will reward you in the long run -until you have your own kids. Then let the cycle of respect continue. Hope everyone continues to stay safe. |
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Craig Petty V.I.P. UK 2298 Posts |
Thank you to everyone that has said kind things about Ryland and his performance. Also a big thank you to Cameron.
Martin, what you don’t seem to understand is that Ryland spends hours practicing every day. And the stuff hee is reviewing on the review show he is very passionate about making it look the best it can be. Regarding Executive Suite he spent a week practicing this routine. I am obviously biased so I have shown this routine to many people laymen and muggles. I asked them to be totally honest about the performance and they loved it. Magicians commented about the confidence of his delivery and how well he handled the props. Laymen were all fooled. I think you are being very harsh. I think he performed the routine very well and certainly well enough for you not to spend the best part of a week bashing his performance over and over again. You advise that people don’t perform an under rehearsed routine on YouTube and I agree. There are many channels with kids that perform routines badly and expose routines. I would never let Ryland do that. In fact my channel on a YouTube is all about talking about how magicians can improve as performers and I have regular interviews with performers offering advice and guidance. I feel that you are targeting my channel unfairly. Finally if you are really concerned about the creator of executive suite please don’t be. Alakazam (who produce Executive Suite) have actually mentioned wanted to get Ryland’s help with a marketing campaign they have planned in the future. So if they are upset about his performance they are showing it in a very strange way. I Hope that’s the end of this silly back and forth because frankly myself and the rest of the magic Café are getting bored of it right now. |
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Gaz Lawrence Inner circle 5991 Posts |
100% correct Craig and beautifully said , hopefully this will put Martins personal vendetta against your brilliant channel to bed .
Great magic to all Gaz 🙂 |
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