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ftlum Special user Roseville, CA 730 Posts |
Hi All,
I was just wondering about the history of Paul Fox Cups. Why was production stopped and why Magic Makers has produced essentially the same cup while others have not? A good quality Paul Fox style cup would be popular, I suspect. thanks, -- Frank |
Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
Part of the history of the Paul Fox cups is on the James Riser web site http://www.jamesriser.com
The cups were made for a while by Paul Fox. Danny Dew made them for a fairly long time, then Jeff Busby negotiated with Danny to acquire the rights to them. Jeff had someone spin the cups for him for a while, then he started machining them using a CNC process. However, something happened to the computer program that cuts the cups. Also, there was water damage to the original chucks, as a result of a leaky roof, so they have been rendered useless. Jeff has consistently and adamantly discouraged people from making cups that he feels infringe upon the Paul Fox design. This is one reason that few have been produced until Magic Makers came out with their "Collector's Cups." There are enough significant differences between the Magic Makers cups and the genuine article that someone who owns the originals can easily tell them apart. Nevertheless, there are other similar cups on the market. The JES cups are quite similar. Also, if you go to the Hocus Pocus Magic shop web site and look at "The Goblets," you will see a nice Italian cup that is very similar to the Paul Fox cups. They are just a smidge smaller.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
Pete Biro 1933 - 2018 18558 Posts |
Busby created CHAOS in the cups marketplace threatening to sue people that made cups that were even just similar to the original Fox design. He even had people KO'd off of ebay for selling "used" Paul Fox cups (which sold for anywhere from $200 - $1000) but he has had his bluff "called" and, in fact, never really owned the rights to the Fox material, as he had not paid Danny Dew the money for the material.
He was so full of it, you could lose the chucks and still have a new set made easily. I did the same with the Larger cups (I named them Galli Galli cups) and only because I wanted to, I changed the design to a slight better (in my opinion) shape.
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
That's absolutely true.
I have to say this about Pete's Galli Galli Cups. They are an excellent value for the money. I have a set in copper and a set in nickel plate. These are really nice cups -- they feel good in the hands and they take a big load. And the bigger dimple in the bottom allows for the three ball display.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
Stephen Barney Regular user UK 130 Posts |
How can anyone have the right to stop someone selling a secondhand item sounds insane.
Bill I am in awe of your cupboard of cups waht a fantastic collection! my question is which ones do you actually use? I have loads of cups but still use a really cheap copper set I first learned with because they just feel right. I am just starting to experiment with some pewter goblets for a themed routine and I am having some success with them the stems make them look like wine or beer goblets rather than magic props and the base is great for the balls to rest on |
Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
They can't. But some had their doubts about Mr. Busby's sanity. I didn't want to say anything about it, but Pete pretty well stated the case. Jeff went raving bonkers anytime anyone advertised a used Paul Fox item. He felt that the words "Paul Fox" belonged to him, even though the law was not on his side regarding selling used merchandise.
Thanks for your kind words about my collection. I have added a large number of cups since my last photo session. I'll probably take more pictures when I get back from the IBM Convention. The cups I use most often would surprise you, I think. I usually do a chop cup routine with a battered leather chop cup I have used for years. I really like the way the Sherwood cups feel. That's why I got the copper ones. I didn't want to get the silver ones dirty! If I'm doing a street gig, which doesn't happen to often any more, I usually use the Gazzos or the Galli-Gallis, unless I get a wild hair and decide to produce softballs. Then the Michael Lee millenium cups come out. I'm working on a routine for the van Dokkum Monster cups.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
Pete Biro 1933 - 2018 18558 Posts |
I had no room for loads, or even props, at the dinner table last night, but I stuck one of my Indian cups in my pocket with a purse frame and four sponge balls. Add to that a fake potato the JUST FIT under the cup.
I did a combo of a cups and balls and Benson bowl with the Tomsoni load moment and was blown away by the reaction of the audienc. One of which was comedienne/actress Ruth Buzzee (sp?).
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
WOW! That must have been really neat!
See, if you know your "scales," you can improvise!
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
TheAmbitiousCard Eternal Order Northern California 13425 Posts |
I think bill needs a new leather chop cup
p.s. trying to find the colon key in the dark on an italian keyboard is not the easiest thing. a single quote is even harder. I donà t know where that is. ....yet. frank
www.theambitiouscard.com Hand Crafted Magic
Trophy Husband, Father of the Year Candidate, Chippendale's Dancer applicant, Unofficial World Record Holder. |
Randy Sager Elite user 409 Posts |
Quote:
On 2004-06-21 00:44, Pete Biro wrote: Pete did she hit you with her purse? Sorry I just had to ask. I remember her doing that to Artie Johnson on the old Laugh In Show. |
Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
Maybe we could arrange for one of those celebrity boxing matches -- Buzzi vs. Busby.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
Pete Biro 1933 - 2018 18558 Posts |
Ruth didn't have her purse with her... but her husband is over 6-feet tall and I didn't want to irk him... she was a great audience.
I told her that years ago I did an act wearing a German Helmet and a cigarette ala Artie Johnson (and won the contest).
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
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Bradley Morgan Special user 702 Posts |
Do any of you like the Johnson Product cups?
I have them and love them. Best, Brad
"I do not know with what weapons World War 3 will be fought, but World War 4 will be fought with sticks and stones." - Einstein
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
They are very good. They don't take quite as large a load as I would like, but they are extremely well made and handle well.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
muzicman Special user LaCenter, Wa 989 Posts |
I love my Johnson Cups!! Do you worry at all about the finish? I polish mine with this stuff called "Flitz" and they look great...for about a day!
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TheAmbitiousCard Eternal Order Northern California 13425 Posts |
I think the johnson cups are great too. but I sold mine to bill. I will probably restock one day.
I like the weight better than pf cups but I think pete does not. cellini cups are my current working cups. I had to toss that in. I really like them. frank
www.theambitiouscard.com Hand Crafted Magic
Trophy Husband, Father of the Year Candidate, Chippendale's Dancer applicant, Unofficial World Record Holder. |
Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
A lot of how well the Johnson Cups will look at any given time depends on how acid your skin is. If your skin is very acidic, the cups will tarnish more quickly. You can polish them daily or you can have them nickel or chrome plated if you wish.
Johnny Ace Palmer uses the Bertram cups. He polishes his before every show as part of his warmup ritual. Of course, comparing the Johnson cups to Paul Fox cups depends on which set of PF cups you have. The older Danny Dew cups, which most people refer to when they talk about PF cups, were lighter than the current MM version or the Johnson cups. The Busby spun PF cups were pretty heavy.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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