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dirtyfoucault Special user UK 679 Posts |
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On Feb 14, 2022, Tortuga wrote: I'm trying to understand if there is any legitimacy to his complaint. Because as one of the most informed and respected reviewers in magic, his opinion is worth at least engaging with. |
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Ray J Inner circle St. Louis, MO 1503 Posts |
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On Feb 14, 2022, dirtyfoucault wrote: Personally I have no respect for anyone who would classify Paul Gordon as "supremely talentless". When I read things like that, especially when they are written about someone I know doesn't fit the description, I assume they have a chip on their shoulder or something. And I don't need to know why. If you really need to know I guess you should try to contact Jamy Ian Swiss.
It's never crowded on the extra mile....
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dirtyfoucault Special user UK 679 Posts |
I agree that Paul Gordon could not reasonably be described as 'supremely talentless', which is why I was especially intrigued by the comment.
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Ray J Inner circle St. Louis, MO 1503 Posts |
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On Feb 15, 2022, dirtyfoucault wrote: Thank you for that. There have been and will continue to be people in our industry that don't see eye-to-eye. I just wish they didn't air their dirty laundry. People can and should handle things among themselves I think.
It's never crowded on the extra mile....
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Merc Man Inner circle NUNEATON, Warwickshire 2537 Posts |
Ah, Jamy Ian Swiss. Oh dear.....the sheer hypocrisy of it all.
The man who sells JC Wagner's version of Card on Ceiling. The man who sells a trick called 'Factory Misprints' - a knock-off of Peter Kane's Wild Card/Gypsy's Curse. A man who sells a Cups and Balls routine that's anything but original - including the Vernon Wand Spin and ball vanish. A man whose book explains 'his' working of the French Drop (again, see Vernon). As for Paul Gordon's Diary Trick; and stating that it's a rip-off of Simon Aronson's. That is a matter of opinion. Why? Well because Paul's routine does not involve a stacked deck per se - since released, it's used either brainwork or a crib! As an effect, I can guarantee that for a professional magician, it is 100% commercial - and therefore worth its weight in gold. How many tricks can you honestly say that spectators ask you to repeat, or show to a friend, etc? In my experience of presenting this trick over many years, the Paul Gordon Diary Trick fits into this category. Moreover, ever since Paul writing this effect up in Nocturnal Creations (1997), he did indeed credit Simon Aronson - along with Ted Danson, Alex Elmsley, Bart Harding, Roger Crosthwaite, Paul Green and L&L Publishing. Remember, this is the guy who apparently never credits anyone. Really?
Barry Allen
Over 14 years have passed - and still missing Abra Magazine arriving every Saturday morning. |
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dirtyfoucault Special user UK 679 Posts |
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On Feb 17, 2022, Merc Man wrote: Thanks for the response. I'm not a great follower of Swiss's work, only aware of his seemingly solid reputation. But his beef with Gordon seemed entirely disproportionate given that it seems to rest solely on Paul having used a quote of his without seeking permission (which while polite, is not absolutely necessary). His ire comes across as simply bad-tempered and personal rather than warranted. It is he, therefore, who it makes look bad. On the other hand, I'm intrigued at what Gordon could possibly have done behind the scenes to annoy him so much (assuming it must have been more than simply the alleged quote mis-use). |
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kebmo3108 Regular user Austria 113 Posts |
Oh my god - he made a mistake - he is busted - let's start bashing him,...... awesome camaraderie ....
It was a good catch and it is kind of funny, don't think that is intended - is he here on the Café ??, so someone can send him a message, making him aware ? I think Paul gordon is a great performer and it is fun to watch him for many reasons. BTW: the majority of newly released effects are rip offs in some way and not always are they improvements. |
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Maxyedid Special user Panama 843 Posts |
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On Nov 4, 2021, Magic__Ian wrote: There is a difference between "counting" and "showing" (or displaying). When you are counting cards, the emphasis is on the quantity. When you are showing/displaying cards, the emphasis is on the identity. For the humand mind is impossible to focus on two things at the same time. When the magician turns over the cards and says "and this cards are blank..." the focus is on the identity of the cards. It is impossible to be counting the cards at the same time as paying attention to what are those cards.
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MorrisCH Veteran user 393 Posts |
Well, according to the man himself, Paul will be publishing a new book which will contain about 80 NEW and unpublished routine. looking forward to it.
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ThomasJ Special user Chicago 999 Posts |
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On Mar 14, 2022, Maxyedid wrote: I agree that the focus on displaying identity vs. counting to show quantity serve different purposes and most spectators wouldn’t notice the discrepancy in the video. However, to say that it’s impossible to simultaneously count and recognize the face of a card is inaccurate. |
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MikeLarkin New user 86 Posts |
The problem is when a magician lifts someone else’s work, makes minor tweaks that often make the effect worse and print it as their own. It’s a cancer that seems widespread around the “world of magic.”
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dawnzubair New user Singapore 82 Posts |
Well, it is not just 1 or 2 on this forum who hate Paul Gordon. I have seen quite a few respected magicians and writers bashing him. From what I understand so far, it is because he copies other magicians' works without giving due credit, and has made a living out of it for the longest time.
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Merc Man Inner circle NUNEATON, Warwickshire 2537 Posts |
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On Aug 16, 2022, dawnzubair wrote: Never take up the profession of a Prosecution Solicitor - because based upon your post above, you won't win many cases! You seem swayed by hearsay rather than factual evidence. You then see fit to join the witch-hunt, smearing the reputation of a professional performer. What gives you that right exactly? Wouldn't you feel aggrieved if someone, on a public forum, tarnished your reputation? Here's the bottom line of it. I have purchased and read almost every book that Paul Gordon has released, spanning some 27 years. I have NEVER witnessed ANY other author actually give such in-depth acknowledgements and crediting to others. Just to add that I have also read the works of some of Paul's detractors. To this end, their lack of relevant crediting is nothing short of sheer hypocrisy. In other words old son, before jumping on the band wagon......how about getting your facts right?
Barry Allen
Over 14 years have passed - and still missing Abra Magazine arriving every Saturday morning. |
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jaschris Loyal user 223 Posts |
Going back to the original post- it was obviously an error to do the Elmsley Count. Seems like the post was a setup to bash Paul Gordon, which is rather silly and immature. Paul Gordon is an entertaining performer with some good material. Though granted it's not all great. I have purchased some of his stuff and I do two of his tricks which have served me well. If I was as good a performer as Mr. Gordon I would be a happy man.
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Ray J Inner circle St. Louis, MO 1503 Posts |
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On Aug 16, 2022, dawnzubair wrote: I see a lot of issues with this post. First, do people REALLY hate Paul Gordon? Or does he have detractors who express their issues with his behavior? Detractors don't necessarily hate, why the need to polarize everything? Secondly, "respected magicians and writers bashing him". I would ask respected by whom? Certainly not by people who like Mr. Gordon. Magic, like any pursuit, has its share of detractors, curmudgeons and provocateurs, who must have something to complain about. Maybe for them Paul Gordon presents an easy target? And finally, the statement "From what I understand so far..." And that's the problem. What is the understanding based upon? Have you also read articles that support Mr. Gordon? And the statement that he "has made a living out of it (using other's work without credit) is totally subjective, even if there is some degree of truth to it. Personally, I don't know what Paul Gordon makes his living from. Magic is obviously a portion of his income, but I also have seen him sing, and he is quite talented in that area. He certainly makes money from his singing performances also. He may have another vocation for all I know. The bottom line for me is this. Ad hominem attacks aren't helpful, especially when the person in question isn't present to comment in rebuttal. Is it any wonder that some performers who used to post here have left? And others have themselves been banned because they did fight back? I don't know all of the reasons why people leave, but I'm sure that the character assassination's that sometimes take place are one reason.
It's never crowded on the extra mile....
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CardGuyMike Special user 787 Posts |
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On Aug 23, 2022, Tortuga wrote: Quite right. That post was so vague as to be worthless. @dawnzubair: Would you care to enumerate these respected magicians and writers who bash him? And perhaps link to the sources so we can see exactly what they have said? Do they have any data to back up their claims? Could you cite some examples where he "copies other magicians' works without giving due credit"? Barry says he has almost all of Paul's books (and there are quite a few) and that Paul has in-depth crediting. Can you refute that? Sounds like Barry has first-hand knowledge. Do you? Paul has quite a few tricks that are derivative of the works of others. So do many respected magicians. Why is Paul singled out for such venom? Full disclosure: I have a very small amount of Paul's material. I am neither a fan nor a detractor. I like some of his tricks and dislike others. I think a few of his tricks are brilliant. I think some of his tricks are unnecessary and sometimes inferior variations of others. And I can say say the same about many other creators. But I really dislike these vague attacks that contain no detailed or factual information. |
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