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EndersGame Inner circle Reviewer EndersGame 2196 Posts |
During a recent re-read and re-study of the Royal Road to Card Magic, I was surprised to discover that RRTCM strongly recommends the Overhand Lift Shuffle (covered in ch. IX) as a good force. Here's the full quote:
"The lift shuffle affords a method of forcing that is not only easy but also convincing ... The action is so natural that many of the best cardmen use this force in preference to any other ... By having several cards that are to be forced on the top of the deck, you can force them in rapid succession in the same way." I've bolded the sentence that I found of particular interest. Many of the best cardmen use Overhand Lift Shuffle Force in preference to any other force - really? I find it hard to believe that this would be true today. I personally use the Overhand Lift Shuffle quite a bit, especially as a control. It's great for preserving an individual card at the top of the deck, or even a small stack such as four Aces. But I'd never considered using it as a force, and must have missed that the first time round when reading RRTCM. But maybe it's a actually good force - does anyone here use it actively as a force? Or is that just another part of RRTCM that is somewhat obsolete and outdated? I do find it hard to believe that "many of the best cardmen" use it in preference to other forces. |
disgruntledpuffin Special user i have nothing to say about my 521 Posts |
I've seen Ben Earl and Gabi use it. Good enough for me!
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Claudio Inner circle Europe 1927 Posts |
Great force. Perfect in the right context, for example when the spectator cannot reach for a card and you then only show it to them.
If a force is easy and convincing, why should it be obsolete? Out of favour would be more like it. Also possibly where one lives overhand shuffles are not so common, therefore the lift force would be out of place too. |
copperct New user Cincinnati, Ohio 93 Posts |
It seems to me this move would be most deceptive for a single card, when the spectator is not asked to call "Stop!" when the card should be selected when performing in a more formal setting ... in other words: a more scripted environment.
When interacting with smaller groups of friends or family, I feel the spectator has more inclination to be included in the selection process. To me, this makes for more awkward handling, although it can be mitigated by getting more familiar with predicting when the spectator is likely to yell stop. In a less familiar setting, no one thinks twice about seeing a deck shuffled and then "randomly" handed to them to take a card. If the group is too boisterous, it's a better go-to than encouraging interaction by calling out to stop. Just another tool in the toolbox! Thanks for pointing this passage out! |
magicfish Inner circle 7004 Posts |
Great force
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Maxyedid Special user Panama 843 Posts |
James Lewis RIP has a very clever effect using this force
Humbly I also published a very small manuscript that uses it in one effect it's in lybrary.com
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Jorib Veteran user 347 Posts |
Roberto Giobbi, if I remember correctly in CC 1, indicates this as a wonderful control and very deceptive force.
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MattyMediocrity Regular user 169 Posts |
A couple weeks ago I did a write up on this on the Magician's forum.
It fries people. It fried me when it was done to me. I mean, it's obviously a force, but you're waiting for that in jog and second packet rotation but all of a sudden *bam*, the force card is being handed out all in one sequence after seeing the top packet disappear. My second best card selection if I'm going for a fooler.
Creator of Molly Mayhem's 25 Cent Tacos <ultra visual coin bend>
I try to treat others as if this were a small community where we're likely to be face to face one day |
martydoesmagic Inner circle Essex, UK 1666 Posts |
Daryl used this force a lot. If your intention is to convince your participant that they've selected a random card, I think this is a good choice for a force.
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ssibal Veteran user 352 Posts |
I would argue that the overhand shuffle and any controls based off of it are outdated. This is only from personal experience as I have never personally witnessed anyone other than magicians using an overhand shuffle. That being said most audiences probably expect you to handle the cards differently, but I think it’s more impactful to perform “miracles” while handling the cards as most people normally do.
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EndersGame Inner circle Reviewer EndersGame 2196 Posts |
Quote:
On Jan 20, 2022, ssibal wrote: What method of shuffling do you see people using? |
ssibal Veteran user 352 Posts |
Quote:
On Jan 20, 2022, EndersGame wrote: Mostly riffle shuffling and sometimes Hindu style shuffle. |
Waterloophai Inner circle Belgium 1368 Posts |
Quote:
On Jan 20, 2022, ssibal wrote: Where do you live ? (country) |
martydoesmagic Inner circle Essex, UK 1666 Posts |
In the UK, the most common shuffling style is overhand. However, I make extensive use of the Hindu Shuffle (more popular in Asia), and no one cares. I have an old friend who is Indian. When he first saw me do a Hindu Shuffle, he said, "You shuffle like my Grandma!" He thought this was very funny. She used a modified grip, with her fingers curled in a fist.
So long it is clear that the cards are being mixed, I don't think your shuffling style matters unless relevant to your presentation. For example, if I'm doing gambling demos, I use a Riffle Shuffle. Some mentalists prefer to use mixing procedures that avoid communicating expertise with a pack of cards. For this reason, it is helpful to learn all three major shuffling styles and the associated false shuffles. |
ssibal Veteran user 352 Posts |
Quote:
On Jan 20, 2022, Waterloophai wrote: Mostly USA and South/Central America and the Caribbean. |
MattyMediocrity Regular user 169 Posts |
I guess perception can be regional.
The overhead shuffle is disarming to me because most every amateur home game poker or rummy player uses it. The moment I see a Hindu shuffle my brain automatically thinks something shady is happening I immediately start thinking that they're going to say stop so they can show me the bottom card or that they're peeling from the bottom and not mixing the cards. I honestly don't think I've ever in my life seen the Hindu used as just a normal way to shuffle cards (with the exception of when I do it... and I'm only doing it to set up the force later)
Creator of Molly Mayhem's 25 Cent Tacos <ultra visual coin bend>
I try to treat others as if this were a small community where we're likely to be face to face one day |
Einmaliger Regular user Germany 199 Posts |
Quote:
On Jan 20, 2022, MattyMediocrity wrote: It is said to be the most common shuffle in Asian countries, not so much in Western ones. |
Bob G Inner circle 2831 Posts |
I'm not sure the audience is less involved in selecting a card during an overhand shuffle than in taking a card from a spread. In both methods the spectator chooses a card and the magician gives it to him or her. Our stereotypical image is of spreading, so perhaps some spectators would be suspicious of other methods. My own experience as a layperson, before I started studying magic seriously, was that I was happy to go along with whatever a magician was doing. Don't know if I'm typical, though.
If you overhand shuffle to mix the deck just before doing another such shuffle for the spectator to chose a card, then I'd guess that the second shuffle would seem quite natural. Roberto Giobbi has some interesting thoughts about the lift shuffle in his book Confidences (see January 29: -- The Lift Shuffle -- A Study in the Polyvalence of a Sleight). |
Bob G Inner circle 2831 Posts |
I meant to say Secret Agenda, not Confidences.
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balbec New user few 62 Posts |
For a casual selection (ie not the main action of the trick) it’s flawless
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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The workers » » Using the Overhand Lift Shuffle as a force - many of the best cardmen prefer it to any other force? (2 Likes) |
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